Milliband promises to increase minimum wage if elected

[Dorset Seagull]

You mean he awful mess caused by a global recession that the Tories would not have dealt with either!!!



Out of interest, what sort of business is it?

It's a retail shop with online mail order

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's not quite as simple as that, certain industries are at the the low end of the pay scale, like say small commercial cleaning companies. These work on small margins just to compete and maybe locked into 2 or 3 year contracts with their clients. Every time the minimum wage goes up it eats into the margin.

If as a company you knew the next three years wage rises you could factor it in at the initial quotation stage but there's a good chance you'll be overpriced then and would miss out altogether. I think most honest companies would love to pay their staff better but also have to be careful not to price themselves out of the contract in the first place, and company handing out the contract want it all for as little as possible unfortunately.

That's just one small example of many small businesses this affects.

There was plenty of warning with the first minimum wage, subsequent increases and this new initiative will most likely be announced in advance and staggered over 5 years. Business just have to adapt and deal with this in the same way they have to deal with all other changes to business variables. The smarter business will get it right, the less smart will struggle or fail.....which IMHO is a not a bad thing as it separates the wheat from the chaff.

I fundamentally believe that if a business cannot afford to pay it's staff a living wage it's not viable.

 

[Bladders]

There was plenty of warning with the first minimum wage, subsequent increases and this new initiative will most likely be announced in advance and staggered over 5 years. Business just have to adapt and deal with this in the same way they have to deal with all other changes to business variables. The smarter business will get it right, the less smart will struggle or fail.....which IMHO is a not a bad thing as it separates the wheat from the chaff.

Don't forget the compulsory pension scheme all small businesses will have to pay into aswell within the next couple of years as well as the minim wage rise. This will have to be passed on to the client , who in order to afford the extra cost will pass it onto theirs.

I wonder sometimes if all this just helps up inflation which in the end will nullify the increase in wages.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

Very much so or he is employing too many staff

Not so and the last 2 people I have recently employed I am actually paying slightly more than they previously earned as they were on the minimum wage. My fear is that there will be a point where the minimum wage may rise to an unsustainable level for a small business.

Since the crash in 2008 many businesses have flatlined in terms of turnover and profit so any overhead increases just eat into margin which just decreases the earnings of the employer

 

[Dorset Seagull]

There was plenty of warning with the first minimum wage, subsequent increases and this new initiative will most likely be announced in advance and staggered over 5 years. Business just have to adapt and deal with this in the same way they have to deal with all other changes to business variables. The smarter business will get it right, the less smart will struggle or fail.....which IMHO is a not a bad thing as it separates the wheat from the chaff.

I fundamentally believe that if a business cannot afford to pay it's staff a living wage it's not viable.

To a degree the term living wage is subjective especially as the cost of living will vary immensely throughout different parts of the UK

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Increasing the minimum wage reduces the level of benefits paid out to supplement workers income to bring them up to a "living wage".

Very good point. Tax payers subsidize most Tescos employees. That's not right.

 

[Bladders]

Very good point. Tax payers subsidize most Tescos employees. That's not right.

Shame the tax saved won't go towards bringing the cost of living down though. Be nice to get fuel a little cheaper helping to bring food prices down a bit etc

Doesn't happen though.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We all live happily on what we earn and many people are motivated to work by things other than money. I suspect if you surveyed people many would prefer a job they enjoyed that paid less than a well paid job that they hated doing. We all spend a huge chunk of our life at work and job satisfaction can make a massive difference to a persons quality of life.

Why should there be a compulsory minimum wage for smaller businesses. If you had a minimum wage for larger corporates but not small business then I would happily take my chances in attracting staff by offering job satisfaction against less satisfying jobs paying a higher wage.

How many people are happy earning less than it costs to live a simple life?

 

[Machiavelli]

It usually goes up twice a year, will be past 8 quid before 2020 at the current rate.

Seems a pointless statement from him

You're having a laugh aren't you. It'll go up if there's a Labour government. If not, it's rise will be diminished, and there will be far more unpaid labour invented in the meantime.

 

[Ernest]

Not so and the last 2 people I have recently employed I am actually paying slightly more than they previously earned as they were on the minimum wage. My fear is that there will be a point where the minimum wage may rise to an unsustainable level for a small business.

Since the crash in 2008 many businesses have flatlined in terms of turnover and profit so any overhead increases just eat into margin which just decreases the earnings of the employer

One of the biggest scourges of this country is employers not paying a PROPER wage, especially when the state then has to subsidise them by way of tax credits, housing benefits etc

 

[Machiavelli]

Shame the tax saved won't go towards bringing the cost of living down though. Be nice to get fuel a little cheaper helping to bring food prices down a bit etc

Doesn't happen though.

The wealth (wages, etc vs cost of living) has been going down since 2003 for the median worker in the UK. That's neoliberalism for you.
ps it increased substantially when we had social democracy

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One of the biggest scourges of this country is employers not paying a PROPER wage, especially when the state then has to subsidise them by way of tax credits, housing benefits etc

Very much this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My fear is that there will be a point where the minimum wage may rise to an unsustainable level for a small business.

Fair point. And just to allay your fear, Germany has had the Milliband proposed minimum wage in place for a while, their economy is booming. They plan to increase it even further over Merkel's current term.

 

[Bladders]

Fair point. And just to allay your fear, Germany has had the Milliband proposed minimum wage in place for a while, their economy is booming. They plan to increase it even further over Merkel's current term.

I think one of the States (possibly Oregon) has introduced a £10 or £12 dollar minimum wage .

It may have been a city only like Portland. Sorry for being vague but I read it briefly a couple of months back.

 

[Stoo82]

The problem is with the cost of housing. Not necessarily the rate of minimum wage.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think one of the States (possibly Oregon) has introduced a £10 or £12 dollar minimum wage .

It may have been a city only like Portland. Sorry for being vague but I read it briefly a couple of months back.

Good call. Pretty sure Seattle has a high min wage. This article makes for an interesting read as well.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/08/poverty-pay-isnt-just-about-economics-new-york

 

[Bladders]

Good call. Pretty sure Seattle has a high min wage. This article makes for an interesting read as well.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/08/poverty-pay-isnt-just-about-economics-new-york

Ah, Seattle. I knew it was somewhere in the Pacific Northwest.

Mmm, yes interesting read that. Pretty disgraceful that huge multinationals like that are paying minimum wage, and in London as well. £6 just about buys a cup of coffee there.

 

[Beach Hut]

Whether the minimum wage increases or not a huge raft of companies, in my view, are very poorly equipped for the challenge of an upturn in the economy.

 

[cunning fergus]

I totally agree with this. It makes perfect sense to tighten the rules regarding employment especially so employers can't circumvent minimum wage legislation. This, like the minimum wage, is one of a number of tools needed to combat the current situation.

Of course it does, but then why didn't happen when Labour were in power? As the article states:

"Cooper will also admit that "the last Labour government got things wrong on immigration. We should have had transitional controls in place for eastern Europe. The figures were wrong, and migration was far greater than we expected. As a result ,the pace and scale of immigration was too great and it is right to bring it down. And we should have recognised more quickly the impact on low skilled jobs, and the worries people had."

How many working class people in this country suffered because of this catastrophic incompetence?

We know they ignored the worries people had, because Gillian Duffy a long time labour member raised her concerns with the Prime Minister in 2010.

Labour probably hope the electorate has forgotten, but the fact is that immigration is a vote loser for Labour. They may want to lance the boil by announcing this minimum wage plan, but the damage has been done.............it was done when they said only 15,000 Poles would arrive.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice.........

 

[Bladders]

Of course it does, but then why didn't happen when Labour were in power? As the article states:

"Cooper will also admit that "the last Labour government got things wrong on immigration. We should have had transitional controls in place for eastern Europe. The figures were wrong, and migration was far greater than we expected. As a result ,the pace and scale of immigration was too great and it is right to bring it down. And we should have recognised more quickly the impact on low skilled jobs, and the worries people had."

How many working class people in this country suffered because of this catastrophic incompetence?

We know they ignored the worries people had, because Gillian Duffy a long time labour member raised her concerns with the Prime Minister in 2010.

Labour probably hope the electorate has forgotten, but the fact is that immigration is a vote loser for Labour. They may want to lance the boil by announcing this minimum wage plan, but the damage has been done.............it was done when they said only 15,000 Poles would arrive.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice.........

I think people did voice their concerns but we're shouted down as racists and xenophobes .