[Travel] Mill Road P&R Chaos

[Dave the OAP]

The problems of the mill road p&r have been caused primarily by the double-edged sword of increased demand (due to shit trains, pandemic, loss of mithras etc) and reduced capacity (loss of bendy buses, traffic congestion etc).
Before the match it is just about bearable as the demand is spread out somewhat and i used to find if i waited for some 40 minutes after the game before leaving the stadium i would usually get to the top of the stairs up to the bus park before the queue started. Sadly this is no longer the case and on sunday i had the joyful experience of not even reaching the stairs by the time i heard the stadium announcement that the last park and ride buses would be leaving shortly- one hour and 15 minutes after the final whistle!
Like everyone i would like something to be done and i have a couple of suggestions. The obvious thing would be to somehow get southern fail to improve the train service and thus reduce p&r demand (if only!!!) but if that is a non goer how about using double decker buses to drop off at either the top or bottom of mill road and having 1 or 2 single deckers to shuttle people who are unable to walk to their car. The added benefit would be that the double deckers would not themselves get caught up in the queue up the hill and be able to get back to the Amex quicker. They could even use the buses for the racecourse once that queue is gone as it was so frustrating on sunday seeing racecourse buses leaving with about 7 people on them and two more empty ones waiting while we were still 100 deep climbing the stairs!

Did they end up leaving people without transport home?

 

[Easy 10]

Coastway West really is the pits. I've long since given up on getting any kind of train at Portslade, especially on Sundays.

Either my mate drives over from Steyning and picks us up, driving to Brighton and parking near the station or me and the lad take a conscious decision to get a 6, keeping an eye on the live departures on the bus app. Same on the way back, either matey drives us from Brighton or we walk down to Churchill Sq and get a 1 or 49.

However good you make the shuttle service from Brighton / Lewes it'll never make up for the fact that the West route isn't fit for purpose on matchday and everyone from Hove back to Shoreham probably has a very real chance of not getting on a train on the way over and of having to join a second train queue at Brighton on the way back.

Incidentally we were at Southampton away last season and I bumped into a long time Brighton supporting mate on the concourse who works for SASTA. He told me that for that away game they could have doubled the coach lengths on all services from Brighton to Southampton at no extra cost but when he suggested it, the answer was "no" with no explanation. I think there are managers at SASTA who consider getting people to where they need to go on time - literally their job - to be too much effort.

I'm astonished Paul Barber won't do anything. I'd be demanding talks with their senior management and a few rockets up a few backsides.

I've certainly learned my lesson on the coastway west SASTA now, albeit belatedly. I knew it wouldn't be great, but (a) the 20-25 minute delay and (b) actually not being able to get on when it eventually rolled in just rammed home how utterly useless that "service" is. A mate of mine lives in Ferring and was on the same train I attempted to get on - he said it was completely stuffed by Worthing.

The 6 bus worked out ok-ish, I wouldn't rule that out if I'm early enough again, but Brighton Station can still be such a lottery. I've tried getting a uni bus up from the Steine, but they just take sooooo longe to crawl through town and up Lewes Road. Last time, by the time we got to the gyratory I had begun self-harming.

Then you know you have the joys of the return journey in the post...

 

[portlock seagull]

The local authorities need to relent and build dozens of car parks around the stadium, with improved road access and carriages extending all the way down to Waterhall. The mandate being we’ve tried to be green, but public transport and services aren’t fit to warrant a Premier League or even Championship club.

It’s TIME TO TARMAC!

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

Did they end up leaving people without transport home?

No, thank goodness, i think it is a stock announcement at that time although i am not normally around to hear it!

 

[Uter]

I aimed for the 12.12 at Portslade, which was delayed, and delayed, and delayed until about 12.35. Eventually a 4 carriage jobbie turned up which was so rammed I physically couldn't get on. When the doors opened, people were literally almost falling out. Maybe I could've forced my way on somewhere, but honestly, even for that short journey, I really didn't fancy it. What a shitshow. I figured the next train would be no better (and probably delayed as well), so I left the station, and as I wandered down Boundary Road, I pondered my next move. Just giving up, going home and watching it on TV was becoming very tempting. But then a number 6 bus to Brighton Station went past me, so I hopped on that.

I'd suggest catching a London bound train and then switching to the Brighton/Hove shuttle at Hove. There's always plenty of room on that service and they always hold it if the London service is delayed.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

The local authorities need to relent and build dozens of car parks around the stadium, with improved road access and carriages extending all the way down to Waterhall. The mandate being we’ve tried to be green, but public transport and services aren’t fit to warrant a Premier League or even Championship club.

It’s TIME TO TARMAC!

I wouldn't expect a Christmas card from Friends of the Earth this year if l were you.

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

I'd suggest catching a London bound train and then switching to the Brighton/Hove shuttle at Hove. There's always plenty of room on that service and they always hold it if the London service is delayed.

They were not running the Hove to Brighton Shuttles yesterday morning to connect with the Victoria trains and even if they were there, the Victoria trains were all screwed by the issues at Three Bridges.

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

I'd suggest catching a London bound train and then switching to the Brighton/Hove shuttle at Hove. There's always plenty of room on that service and they always hold it if the London service is delayed.

Actually, not always true. One of the reasons i stopped using the trains for the Amex a couple of years ago was when i boarded a london train at Worthing and all was good until we sat stationary just outside Hove for about 5 mins. We then entered Hove station and there was no connecting train just a pair of tail lights heading towards Brighton! I said to a member of staff "was that the shuttle" and he said "yes" so i enquired why it had not waited for us, to be told without a hint of sarcasm, deadly serious "IT WAS ON TIME"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To make matters worse the next train in was a fully rammed three car i could not get on so ended up getting a bus to Brighton.

 

[Weststander]

I wouldn't expect a Christmas card from Friends of the Earth this year if l were you.

But commission from Tarmac.

 

[A1X]

Said it before, they should run 8 car Thameslink trains between Brighton and Lewes on match days, much more standing capacity than a 6 car 313 or even an 8 car 377. If they can deal with “crush load” London commuter time, they should be able to handle this.

 

[Since1982]

Cheers, I shall consider all options and bear that in mind.
Its all just becoming such a tiresome mission though. The older I get, the less I can be arsed.

A major reason why I didnt renew this year. I’d have loved to be there for the Leicester and Chelsea games but to be honest I’m happier without the transport hassle.

 

[Weststander]

Said it before, they should run 8 car Thameslink trains between Brighton and Lewes on match days, much more standing capacity than a 6 car 313 or even an 8 car 377. If they can deal with “crush load” London commuter time, they should be able to handle this.

Can that work with the short Falmer platforms?

When others suggested this in the past, nsc rail experts poured cold water on the idea.

 

[warmleyseagull]

A solution I have thought about ever since Amex opened is to park some distance away and cycle rest of way. Not been necessary until now but wondering if this is a runner. Of course, there will then be a shortage of bike rack space (it is close to capacity presently) and hi viz brigade for sure wont allow chaining to fence.

 

[Jam The Man]

I mailed PB from the queue yesterday at the request of 2 of my family, who are new STH. They can’t believe how poor the Mill Rd service is, and that it takes more than 90 mins to get back to the car - it’s ludicrous that it’s longer than the match itself.

PB graciously replied and though I won’t go into the details, it’s clear that he gets a lot of complaints about this and it irks him.
My slight confusion in his response though was that the club are ‘not responsible’ for transport to and from matches.
Now, I understand literally what he is saying… but surely the club has a contract of sorts with the service providers? The service has always been a little poor, but it was bearable - now though it has become EXTREMELY poor, and quite frankly a really terrible customer /supporter service.

Aren’t such terms negotiable or at least up for discussion?

He added that there is also a shortage of drivers and buses across the south of England too.

 

[jackalbion]

Not P&R but I actually emailed Paul Barber for the first time yesterday about Southerns performance - 4 carriage trains only and only 2 services an hour on the West Coastway.

I acknowledged and accept the club have little power, they at least have a commercial arrangement with Southern given they apparently pay them part of the ‘travel subsidy’ so might have some lines of communication to them. But I was told I needed to take it up with Southern myself

The stadium was built based on a sustainable travel plan but based on what’s being provided I don’t see how the club are keeping up its side of the bargain.

Thoughts the trains to the ground on the East Coastway were very good yesterday, but the West Coastway was poor, but there’s never been any enhancements on that route. The problem is the base services is half of that pre pandemic, it’s poor, but it’s not something the club can do anything about, it’s the dft you have take that up with.

 

[Madafwo]

Can that work with the short Falmer platforms?

When others suggested this in the past, nsc rail experts poured cold water on the idea.

It's not the platform at Falmer that's the issue, it's the platform at Lewes.

The platforms at Falmer have already been lenghtend from 6 coaches when the Amex opened to 8 coaches, the problem is you have to then get them back to Brighton. You can't do that at Lewes as you'd block the line towards Eastbourne/Seaford and that would also block the line up towards London.

From memory the Thameslink stock is cleared for the route towards Lewes but then I don't think they are cleared down to Seaford and as far as I'm aware the drivers don't know that route either so that's that out the question. Then there is the longstanding issue of power on the Seaford branch, there is a restriction of 8 coaches of Southern stock as anything longer draws too much power and the substations can't handle it, no idea how power hungry the Thameslinks are.

Another solution could be a bay platform at Falmer but then it comes down to cost and Network Rail aren't going to pay for something that expensive so it would fall on the club to do it, that's before we even get to the subject of space, which I don't think there is (I've not been down that way for a couple of years).

Lack of coaches is an ongoing issue post Covid, most trains on the busier (London) routes have been lengthened to aid social distancing so the spare units just aren't available at weekends any more to strengthen the Coastway West services when the focus (rightly or wrongly) is bolstering Brighton to Lewes. We've also lost the 5 car trains that used to pop down from London at the weekends due to the 455 metro units being sent for scrap so that also makes a difference.

To answer another specific point, that I've forgotten to quote, extra coaches always equals extra cost, for every train that runs on the network the operating company has to pay a track access charge, longer trains take more power to run and add extra wear to the infrastructure so someone has to pay for it.

 

[Easy 10]

Thoughts the trains to the ground on the East Coastway were very good yesterday, but the West Coastway was poor, but there’s never been any enhancements on that route. The problem is the base services is half of that pre pandemic, it’s poor, but it’s not something the club can do anything about, it’s the dft you have take that up with.

But you would think the club would have more clout than the punters. Its all very well Barber / BHA washing their hands of it in a "not my problem guv" kind of way. But when the ST renewals start to diminish because of the increasing ballache it is becoming getting to and from the Amex, then perhaps they'll have to have a chinstroke.

I've had a ST for as long as I can remember, and have absolutely loved the journey I've been on with this club, its a massive part of my life. But when you live relatively locally, and you're still routinely having to slap 1.5-2 hours on either side of the game, with the majority of that time spent standing around like cattle chewing cud, then there's going to be a "hang on...." moment for a lot of fans. I'm getting close to that point.

 

[Stat Brother]

A solution I have thought about ever since Amex opened is to park some distance away and cycle rest of way. Not been necessary until now but wondering if this is a runner. Of course, there will then be a shortage of bike rack space (it is close to capacity presently) and hi viz brigade for sure wont allow chaining to fence.

Someone's not read #18!!!

The other advantage, as is always the advantage with cycling anywhere, is time.
Whatever time you want to arrive at t'AMEX you can.
You're not constrained P&R being full and lengthy queues.

On Sunday I arrived at 13:30, queued for a coffee and took my seat at 13:40.
Final whistle (no player applause) then at Mill Road BP 40 mins later.


The cycle path up from Brighton ought to look like old skool newsreel of rush hour in Beijing but it doesn't.
I'd suggest if it did those who need to use 'public transport' would find the experience considerably more agreeable - but hey that's the same for all the UK car centric transport woes so I'll not be expecting change any time soon.

 

[Brovion]

The Greens had 3 councillors in Brighton and Hove after the 1999 elections. The stadium application was submitted in 2001. I am not sure the 45 Labour councillors at the time really had to worry about keeping the Greens "onside".

The P&R sites don't exist simply to tick some sustainable transport boxes.

The Green momentum was building though. There were 6 in 2003 and 12 in 2007 (the year before construction started). Besides I wasn't just referring to Brighton Greens but to the whole environmental lobby, who in case you've forgotten were bitterly opposed to a stadium being built in beautiful, unspoilt downland (sic).

The Green momentum was building though. They had 6 councillors in 2003, and 12 in 2007 (when construction started). Besides I was referring to the Environmental lobby as a whole who, in case you've forgotten, were bitterly opposed to the building of a stadium in beautiful, unspoilt downland (sic).

 

[AstroSloth]

As an aside and a bit O/T the whole thing about 'sustainable transport' certainly with regard to Park 'N' Ride is complete bollocks and was only put in to try and keep the Greens onside. Luckily no one questioned why driving, parking, and then catching a fuel-swilling fume-belching bus is 'sustainable', but driving, parking and walking isn't.

Because a bus transports dozens of people by itself, a train hundreds of people. To get the same amount of people there by driving results in far more carbon emissions than using a hybrid bus or the trains.

Busses and trains are far less polluting than transporting that many people by car.