[News] Mike Amesbury MP - Rocky VIII: Backbench Brawler

[Thunder Bolt]

One system, different quality of brief, based on wealth of client.

There is an argument for having prosecution and defense paid for from taxes.
But nobody wants an increase in tax.
Or shitty minimum wage lawyers who couldn't care less and balls everything up.

But anyway, let's not drop the 'two tier' trope because it gives the barking tory contingent a frisson of excitement,
and nobody wants to deprive the barking wing of tory support of a crumb of comfort in this time of hardship. Poor lambs.

(Personally I would have liked to have seen this oaf get 6 months, but it is what it is, isn't it?)

Point of order, legal aid lawyers are not shitty. The volume of work is almost unworkable.
Thanks to the Tories, legal aid has been cut to the bone, so hardly available.

From what I am reading, my opinion is Amesbury has offered to do the alcohol course, and anger management course plus community service in exchange for prison. The Crown Court judge has accepted it. One missed session and it will be prison recall.

 

[Eeyore]

Hold on, he is the wrong kind for 'Two tier Keir', isn't he? I thought as a white middle-aged heterosexual man he is supposed to be thrown in jail while brown people get off?

These days, you get arrested and let off if you are white, middle aged and heterosexual and a good lawyer...

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Let's not be sidelined here. Regardless of political persuasion and colour of rosette, the optics are terrible here for all concerned.

One wonders what's significantly changed in the last few days.

If the length of the sentence was "spot on", there's precious little wriggle room here for it to have been suspended on appeal.

Even after the appeal, I still stand by my position that his resignation would have been the only honourable action once the sentence was passed.

Violently assaulting a constituent whom you represent is beyond the pale regardless of whether they support you or not.

How does resigning v losing his seat in a by-election affect his pension/pay?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Point of order, legal aid lawyers are not shitty. The volume of work is almost unworkable.
Thanks to the Tories, legal aid has been cut to the bone, so hardly available.

Yes, quite.

What I meant was, if we take the opportunity to make money out of the legal system,
by stopping rich people pay a very clever person £10,000 an hour to get them off,
and have everyone made to use a pool of state funded briefs,
the quality of the brief will fall according to how much HMG decides to spend on each court case.

Because everyone would have to be given the same type of legal defense.
So a chav accused of criminal damage and a someone caught in the act of murder would be given a brief from the same pool.

Now, what is the likely average salary of that pool of briefs?
People unable to practice privately.
Because private practice law creates inequality, and we don't want a two tier system do we?

A system that allows private practice is two tier by definition.

In the present case I am interested in how the bloke was spared jail.
I think some of the posts on the thread, especially the one-eyed one suggesting Starmer got him off,
are actually hindering the revelation of the truth of the matter.

I would have liked to have seen this bloke given 6 months.
You may equate this case with a Brighton fan who was jailed,
but unless there is a plausible narrative that explains how one or other decision is wrong and possibly illegal . . . .
I can do no more than shrug

 

[Gwylan]

But anyway, let's not drop the 'two tier' trope because it gives the barking tory contingent a frisson of excitement,
and nobody wants to deprive the barking wing of tory support of a crumb of comfort in this time of hardship. Poor lambs.

(Personally I would have liked to have seen this oaf get 6 months, but it is what it is, isn't it?)

But, Labour has not changed any sentencing guidelines. They're set by an independent panel and nothing has changed since Labour game to power. All the people prosecuted under the summer riots were prosecuted under existing laws.

There is certainly more of a propensity to keep people out of jail but that can be laid firmly at the Tories' door as they were the government that failed to increase the number of prison places, despite several warnings.

That's why the more sensible Tory politicians are staying stumm about sentencing policies

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Point of order, legal aid lawyers are not shitty. The volume of work is almost unworkable.
Thanks to the Tories, legal aid has been cut to the bone, so hardly available.

From what I am reading, my opinion is Amesbury has offered to do the alcohol course, and anger management course plus community service in exchange for prison. The Crown Court judge has accepted it. One missed session and it will be prison recall.

I think you added a bit after I replied.
Yes, that seems like a good arrangement.
If we are in favour of not cluttering jails with 6 month prisoners and destroying lives as a consequence.....

I suppose the issue is whether the same leniency (or common sense) should have been applied to the rioters in the summer.
Well, that sentencing seems to have nipped all that tomfoolery in the bud.
Just when it looked like 'footy lads' and suchlike were about to start a Save The Nation from Socialism, Paedophiles and Foringers binge.
So I think it was right and proper. A warning to others.
But I would say that, wouldn't I?

The trouble with law is that every case is different, and the public want both consistency of sentencing and careful consideration of every case.
Contrary lot are we not?
(Actually I like contrariness. Being able to hold two contrary views about one thing at the same time is an artform. I think it is a human strength).

Anyway, always a pleasure to chat.
My attempt to avoid marking student work by coming on here will alas have to end...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

But, Labour has not changed any sentencing guidelines. They're set by an independent panel and nothing has changed since Labour game to power. All the people prosecuted under the summer riots were prosecuted under existing laws.

There is certainly more of a propensity to keep people out of jail but that can be laid firmly at the Tories' door as they were the government that failed to increase the number of prison places, despite several warnings.

That's why the more sensible Tory politicians are staying stumm about sentencing policies

Indeed.
Which is why I find the 'two tier Kier' trope so nauseating.
Anyway, must do some work.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think you added a bit after I replied.
Yes, that seems like a good arrangement.
If we are in favour of not cluttering jails with 6 month prisoners and destroying lives as a consequence.....

I suppose the issue is whether the same leniency (or common sense) should have been applied to the rioters in the summer.
Well, that sentencing seems to have nipped all that tomfoolery in the bud.
Just when it looked like 'footy lads' and suchlike were about to start a Save The Nation from Socialism, Paedophiles and Foringers binge.
So I think it was right and proper. A warning to others.
But I would say that, wouldn't I?

The trouble with law is that every case is different, and the public want both consistency of sentencing and careful consideration of every case.
Contrary lot are we not?
(Actually I like contrariness. Being able to hold two contrary views about one thing at the same time is an artform. I think it is a human strength).

Anyway, always a pleasure to chat.
My attempt to avoid marking student work by coming on here will alas have to end...

Get some work done!!

 

[hart's shirt]

How does resigning v losing his seat in a by-election affect his pension/pay?

Not sure if a by-election is different and more immediate, but MPs who lose their seats in General Elections receive a Winding Up sum of money. It helps former MPs pay for expenses once their salaries have stopped and covers costs over the next few months. For the last election, it was doubled from 2 months to 4 months. It didn't include any MPs who had resigned outside the election period like Johnson.
https://news.sky.com/story/winding-...-seat-at-next-election-to-be-doubled-12947044

If they've been an MP for two years or more, they are also entitled to a Loss of Office Payment - which is twice the amount of money they get when they're made redundant - depending on their age and length of service. Then it's 5 days to pack up their office, say goodbyes and hand back their deactivated House of Parliament security pass.

Clearly one would think that it's in Amesbury's immediate financial interests to stay and wait rather than resign. Thus his decision is understandable although I don't support it. However if justice is now seen not to be taking its course by enough of his constituents who are prepared to back a recall petition, a by-election would result which could see him as an Independent ousted regardless.

Politics is full of comeback stories across the House. With his years of experience and service, there's no reason why Amesbury couldn't be one despite all this. It's still possible to take the moral high ground by taking the punishment, doing the time and moving on quickly. Even factoring in the remuneration, I wonder if this will do him more damage in the long term.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Get some work done!!

Well, it has gone 5 now.
I got bugger all useful done other than software updating <sigh>
And now it's time for dinner

 

[dazzer6666]

Point of order, legal aid lawyers are not shitty. The volume of work is almost unworkable.
Thanks to the Tories, legal aid has been cut to the bone, so hardly available.

From what I am reading, my opinion is Amesbury has offered to do the alcohol course, and anger management course plus community service in exchange for prison. The Crown Court judge has accepted it. One missed session and it will be prison recall.

The legal aid lawyer in the case I heard when I was on a jury was absolutely useless. If there was VAR we’d have been there two extra days as his ‘clear and obvious errors’ were reviewed.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

These days, you get arrested and let off if you are white, middle aged and heterosexual and a good lawyer...

Or black, young, LGBTQ+, maybe a woman footballer and a good lawyer?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Once more, what a terrible look.

Bloke sucker punches someone and continues to lay into them on the ground and gets zero jail time.

Problem is he didn’t give them enough verbal abuse …ten years for that

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Is he actually saving us money but not utilising the bed and board costs for the 5 weeks of 10 that he would serve?

I don’t like the optics, particularly how quickly the appeal was heard but the above and level of rehabilitation are factors I guess?

 

[Hiheidi]

Is he actually saving us money but not utilising the bed and based costs for the 5 weeks of 10 that he would serve?

I don’t like the optics, particularly how quickly the appeal was heard but the above and level of rehabilitation are factors I guess?

Yes, but it's not going to act as a deterrent for others in society.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Yes, but it's not going to act as a deterrent for others in society.

No it won’t, it will also be an interesting benchmark for the average Joe tried for alcohol related public order / assault 1st offences

 

[Giraffe]

Is he actually saving us money but not utilising the bed and board costs for the 5 weeks of 10 that he would serve?

I don’t like the optics, particularly how quickly the appeal was heard but the above and level of rehabilitation are factors I guess?

It looks so bad though dosn't it. We've all seen him hit someone, we've heard about people getting sent to prison for much less offences like inciting violence not actually being violent and then miraculous when the fear of a by election is put up he is suddenly released. It smells. There does seem to be something wrong with our justice system.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It looks so bad though dosn't it. We've all seen him hit someone, we've heard about people getting sent to prison for much less offences like inciting violence not actually being violent and then miraculous when the fear of a by election is put up he is suddenly released. It smells. There does seem to be something wrong with our justice system.

There’s been something wrong with our justice system for decades. Politicians make the laws, courts carry out the law.

 

[LamieRobertson]

It looks so bad though dosn't it. We've all seen him hit someone, we've heard about people getting sent to prison for much less offences like inciting violence not actually being violent and then miraculous when the fear of a by election is put up he is suddenly released. It smells. There does seem to be something wrong with our justice system.

…you could add that the Labour Councillor (sorry suspended LC) who judging by a widely seen video appeared to be inciting violence ..had his case initially deferred to January (I think partly down to him pleading not guilty) and now pushed out to August almost a year after the alleged offence …hmm ..again not good optics ..and inevitably leads to various assumptions

 

[LamieRobertson]

There’s been something wrong with our justice system for decades. Politicians make the laws, courts carry out the law.

…and you don’t reckon that politicians don’t lean on the judiciary…