[News] Middle East conflict

[armchairclubber]

I’m not going to engage on this subject any more, I feel we understand each other’s position and where we disagree.

I was going to disect your post a little and reply to individual points you made, though as you say I think further engagement is futile.

Your gave several analogies to help me understand your viewpoint and as said before, I think I now do.

An analogy of my own came to mind.

The inconsistent and hypocritical way in which Britain is dealing with or intefering or dabbling (as you see fit) in foreign policy gives me the perception of someone chucking a petrol bomb into a four bedroom house and running away.

A playing with fire attitude.

I too though feel we understand each others position and where we disagree.

No need to explain any more.

 

[aolstudios]

Ah, whataboutery.

On the contrary, one conflict is in Europe, with a clear aggressor, and a threat to European stability.

The Israel/Gaza conflict takes place in a different geopolitical region, with dual aggressors, and plenty of nations around able to mediate should both sides wish to mediate.

However, we both know neither do, so until both sides have governments that desire peace, there will be no peace.

in Ukraine, I would hope that we would continue to provide the support that Ukraine asks for until Russia is returned to its pre-annexation of Crimea borders, then an agreement is reached for it to financially compensate Ukraine in a manner that allows Ukraine to rebuild its infrastructure.

A quick glance at a map will tell you that there are many better placed than us to mediate between Israel and Palestine. Ukraine is a sovereign European nation. There’s a significant difference. We should seek stability within our geopolitical bloc.

And while we should absolutely continue to support Ukraine, I still would not want our government’s primary focus to be on it. We have elected a Prime Minister of Britain, I’m happy for our Foreign Secretary to devote considerable resource to Ukraine, but I don’t want our domestic government paralysed by that conflict.

Excellent summary

 

[:J)]

 

[armchairclubber]

 

[Krafty]

Yes, ‘Judaism’ is a ‘religion/belief not a race’ but being Jewish is a distinct identity separate from that and is NOT a religion.

I’ve posted much on this thread about the demographic make up of Israeli Jews which is diverse and consists of various religious sub-groups but the majority of the population of Jews in Israel are secular (ie non-religious).

The one thing Jews don’t agree on though, is how to identify themselves as a group because there is little homogeneity.

So if being Jewish isn’t a religion, what is it? Describing Jews as a ‘race’ is problematic for many Jews - not least because defining Jews as a ‘race’ was the basis upon which Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews as being “racially impure”. There is some legitimate question as to whether Jews are a ‘race’ anyway given the global diversity of Jews in different cultures. Jews are an incredibly diasporic people (ie globally scattered outside Palestine) and even amongst themselves there is no shared understanding of what Jews are - A people? A nation? A race? A culture? An Ethnicity?

Personally, I identify with the ‘culture and ethnicity’ aspect of a Jewish identity, specifically Ashkenazi, the population of Eastern Jews but on a broader level, part of the ‘People of Israel’. Even though I may not regard ‘Jews’ as a ‘race’, there are genetic traits that identify me as a direct offspring of Ashkenazi - I recently had genetic testing for certain cancer risks a few months back because Ashkenazi Jews in particular often carry a gene fault that places them at very high risks for certain cancers compared to non-Jewish people - so perhaps the ‘racial’ element is in the biological ancestry but to describe Jews as a ‘race’ is considered very problematic for Jews in a post-Holocaust world.

Suffice to say, conflating the Jewish identity with Judaism cancels out millions of Jews worldwide and those in Israel who do not adhere to religious practice.

3. Identity

Overwhelmingly, Jews in Israel feel a strong sense of belonging to the Jewish people and are proud to be Jewish. Fully 93% of Jews say they are proud of

www.pewresearch.org

TL;DR
Being Jewish and Judaism are entirely different things, only the latter being a religion - but apart from that, don’t bother, it’s complicated.

Thanks @Zeberdi, really informative.

 

[borat]

I see things like this and don't have the words anymore. The lack of being able to do anything significant to prevent this makes you want to cry with frustration.

 

[armchairclubber]

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Scum - utter scum.

 

[borat]

 

[armchairclubber]

This is what happens when you don't stand up against evil.

 

[Zeberdi]

Adults in the Room

Representative Raskin to Highlight Families of Hostages at Netanyahu Address

raskin.house.gov

“Before the address, Rep. Raskin will meet with numerous hostage families who have been protesting Prime Minister Netanyahu’s indifference to the fate of their loved ones in captivity, his failure to meet with dozens of hostage families and his refusal to get serious about a comprehensive hostage return and ceasefire.

“These families speak for the majority of Israelis who disapprove of Netanyahu’s performance in office,” Rep. Raskin said.

“This humanitarian and political catastrophe afflicting Palestinians and Israelis alike must end. It is in the cause and interest of all humanity that the hostages be safely and swiftly returned home, that there be a complete bilateral ceasefire in the region, that terrorists be removed from operational control of Gaza, that the right-wing settler provocation and violence in the West Bank encouraged by right-wing Ministers Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir be brought to an immediate end to stop further devastation and war, and that there be a permanent end to the horrifying cycles of terror and war in the region to usher in the creation of the long-postponed Palestinian state alongside a democratic and secure Jewish state...

I also stand with the majority of the people of Israel who reject Netanyahu, hundreds of thousands of whom have marched at different times recently for the rule of law, judicial independence, human rights, peace and Netanyahu’s removal from office.”

Adults in the room

 

[armchairclubber]

 

[borat]

I knew AIPAC have a lot of sway in US politics but never knew about senators having a "minder"

 

[Insel affe]

This is what happens when you don't stand up against evil.

I give up, a good man could turn bad with all the injustice in the world, makes you wonder about the human race.
disgusting.

 

[armchairclubber]

I give up, a good man could turn bad with all the injustice in the world, makes you wonder about the human race.
disgusting.

Just as some additional thought, people are not always portrayed as they might be in reality.

'in the absence of so many politicians the government had filled empty seats with stand-ins to create a false impression of popularity, though of course the popularity he has among those funded by Israel is nauseating enough'

More than half Dems boycott Netanyahu lie-fest – but govt replaces them with extras

Absent lawmakers replaced by stand-ins to create false impression as pro-Israel stooges fawn over Israeli PM’s litany of lies The US Congress listens to Netanyahu drone More than half of Demo…

skwawkbox.org

 

[armchairclubber]

 

[armchairclubber]

 

[armchairclubber]

'Horrifying' Israeli strike on girls' school in Gaza kills at least 30

Khadija Girls' School had a field hospital within the complex and was sheltering over 4,000 displaced Palestinians

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[armchairclubber]

 

[armchairclubber]

Netenyahu has brought forward his return to Israel.

Seems likely he will escalate his offences against Hezbollah and Lebanon soon after meeting with his Security Council.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-moves-up-flight-from-dc-after-deadly-hezbollah-rocket-strike/