[News] Middle East conflict

[Bozza]

This is just insane - I asked weeks ago WTF just happened to the Human race when Israel started bombing mosques and schools but refugee camps - how is that even human ?! Our Government is sanctioning this

Jabalia: Israel air strike reportedly kills dozens at Gaza refugee camp - BBC News

The Hamas-run health ministry says 50 people were killed, Israel says it killed a Hamas commander.

www.bbc.co.uk

Israel-Hamas war: Middle East crisis latest

Follow this live page for the latest on the wars in the Middle East as Israel fights both Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

news.sky.com

How anyone living in the free country we, do or even those elsewhere who post on here, can look at tonight's pictures on the news of Gaza and say it is deserved are deluded. Lives of innocent people are being exterminated by evil.

From the BBC:

The IDF spokesperson Daniel Hagari has confirmed that Israeli fighter jets carried out the attack on the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza, which he said killed a senior commander and caused the collapse of Hamas's underground infrastructure.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

From the BBC:

The IDF spokesperson Daniel Hagari has confirmed that Israeli fighter jets carried out the attack on the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza, which he said killed a senior commander and caused the collapse of Hamas's underground infrastructure.

And our f***ing government supports this? Beggars belief. It's so upsetting.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

How anyone living in the free country we do, or even those elsewhere who post on here, can look at tonight's pictures on the news of Gaza and say it is deserved are deluded. Lives of innocent people are being exterminated by evil.

This is true. But the caveat is that this is what Hamas wanted.

 

[wellquickwoody]

8,000 deaths in 25 days of air strikes in a densely-packed area of 3 million people? It may be many things, but it's certainly not indiscriminate

Little bit of the usual media spin there. Nearly all other estimates put the population total at just over 2 million, across the whole of Gaza.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

This is true. But the caveat is that this is what Hamas wanted.

That may be the case Harry but let's take the moral high ground. I am hating the current position this government (total government as all main parties) are supporting Israel in everything they do. The general public I would suggest think differently. Too many are frightened of the anti-Semitic card but f***ing hell we can't sit by and allow slaughter.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And our f***ing government supports this? Beggars belief. It's so upsetting.

I'm not sure it 'supports' it. It 'understands' it, and has decided to not waste it's breath grandstanding for a 'ceasefire'. In any case, Hamas won't agree to a ceasefire. Labour's position is much the same. What else are we supposed to do?

My former union has a total boycott on Israel. That has done nothing more than make its Palestinian supporters feel righteous. Hooray.

Hamas knows that it can put a commander in the middle of a hospital, school or refugee camp, and that Israel will attack it.

Both sides know exactly what will happen, and both sides are fully signed up to it.

The 'big man' response would have been for Israel to have not retaliated to the original attack. However Bibi had to attack because this is what his support demands.

And on it will go till there are no more Hamas rockets fired. It is already a genocide. Unless we (who is 'we', anyway?) invade Israel we can't stop it. And America underwrites Israel.

At the end of the day, unless the Hamas leadership are syphilitic cretins drunk on their own power and delusional, this was all part of a plan, and the plan was that Iran and Syria and Lebanon would join in a war to the death. That has not happened yet, and seems unlikely. So Hamas is now milking the outrage over the death of Palestinian civilians. while keeping up the pot shots at Israel to keep the pot simmering.

And what will happen? Thousands more will die. Hamas will eventually stop firing. Hamas will then regroup. Gaza will be rebuilt to a fashion. In a few years it will be 'rinse and repeat'. Sadly I suspect this episode will also cement Likud and it's lunatic partners in place.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That may be the case Harry but let's take the moral high ground. I am hating the current position this government (total government as all main parties) are supporting Israel in everything they do. The general public I would suggest think differently. Too many are frightened of the anti-Semitic card but f***ing hell we can't sit by and allow slaughter.

What are you going to do other than emote? Boycott 'Friday Night Dinner'?

We are powerless. We do not have an independent say in the state of the world. We cannot touch Israel, China, India, Brazil or indeed America. We are small and irrelevant.

All we can do is support peace, and support reconciliation. I am certainly not going to start campaigning outside the local synagogue or Mosque. There will be plenty of others out there who will attack Jews and Muslims according to preference.

I haven't looked into Sunak's level of support for Israel (mostly because I am not interested in what the little **** thinks). Labour have not petitioned for a ceasefire but this is heavily caveated. Both positions are relevant to one thing only - how it will affect voting at the next general election. In the wider context the position is about as relevant as my position on Chelsea's transfer policy.

I mean, FFS, we can't even boycott China, which sells us stuff we could refuse to buy, like out cellphones, televisions and cars. What are we going to boycott Israel over? Or Palestine? They don't sell us anything and hardly anyone goes on holiday there. The only thing we have left is to invade.

I think the best we can do as individuals is try to be calm and kind.

 

[1066familyman]

And our f***ing government supports this? Beggars belief. It's so upsetting.

I wouldn't be too surprised by our Government's support really. Nothing much changes.

UK apology sought for British war crimes in Palestine

A 300-page dossier details atrocities by British soldiers against Palestinians during UK rule.

www.bbc.com

And if anyone wants to just dismiss that as all in the past. Then you can read this from today as well.

King Charles expresses "deepest regret" for Kenya colonial wrongdoings

King Charles said on Tuesday he felt the "greatest sorrow and deepest regret" for atrocities suffered by Kenyans during their struggle for independence from British colonial rule.

www.reuters.com

 

[jonny.rainbow]

This is true. But the caveat is that this is what Hamas wanted.

Yes, the right wing Pro-Israeli media and governments would have you believe that.

Their other Islamophobic trope is that Muslims want to take the world back to the Stone Age.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And our f***ing government supports this? Beggars belief. It's so upsetting.

Clearly doesn't matter to the Israeli's how many children or women they kill just as long as they can justify the strike for taking out a SINGLE Hamas member. Nothing but terrorists which our government are supporting.

 

[Sirnormangall]

The atrocities on both sides have been appalling. Biden’s words of advice for Israel not to act in haste or over-react fell on deaf ears. Israel could have chosen to keep the moral high ground over a bunch of terrorists but are now proving to be no better and if they continue on that path they will increasingly lose support.

 

[Insel affe]

Clearly doesn't matter to the Israeli's how many children or women they kill just as long as they can justify the strike for taking out a SINGLE Hamas member. Nothing but terrorists which our government are supporting.

Don’t forget the tunnels…
I’m just shocked this is allowed to happen, I think as someone said this is what Hamas wanted, the world possibly to turn on Israel and we maybe falling into place. How can you not condemn this quite literally overkill by Israel.

Sickened by our Government’s lack of morals.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I wouldn't be too surprised by our Government's support really. Nothing much changes.

UK apology sought for British war crimes in Palestine

A 300-page dossier details atrocities by British soldiers against Palestinians during UK rule.

www.bbc.com

And if anyone wants to just dismiss that as all in the past. Then you can read this from today as well.

King Charles expresses "deepest regret" for Kenya colonial wrongdoings

King Charles said on Tuesday he felt the "greatest sorrow and deepest regret" for atrocities suffered by Kenyans during their struggle for independence from British colonial rule.

www.reuters.com

I also noticed that interesting report on the current British view of Mau Mau 'terrorists' on channel 4 news.

And I'm sorry @Harry Wilson's tackle but we shouldn't stand back and accept it. I know that Sunak won't do anything (and Braverman's latest disgusting rant makes that obvious) and I understand why Starmer doesn't want to resurrect the whole Anti Semitism thing, but we're way beyond that now.

There has to be a ceasefire now and anybody not supporting this is either directly or tacitly supporting the killing of innocent civilians from both sides, plain and simple

 

[Zeberdi]

Their other Islamophobic trope is that Muslims want to take the world back to the Stone Age.

Well they are heading in the right direction with flattening Gaza but I fear a greater Islamophobic trope is one wrapped in the guise of the Great Replacement Theory being trotted out by our own right wing politicians at Home, Cruella Braverman in particular - is it surprising that a politician who would deport legal migrants to Rwanda would also demonise and stereotype British Palestinians?

The GRT is used as a political agenda that creates a climate of fear around immigration policies that welcome immigrants - it is a theory that rejects multiculturalism as the means by which white populations will be overtaken by non-whites, muslim refugees etc

It’s not a theory however - it’s a real far-right belief that’s finding its way into mainstream European politics - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65324319.amp

And in the UK, it begins with demonising and stereotyping non-white British citizens especially Muslims….and sending migrants to Rwanda. It is a Theory that lies at the heart of Religious Zionism.

 

[Easy 10]

View attachment 168596

Celtic fans will be displaying pro-Palestian banners at tonights game v Atletico https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-67215217

Stay classy.

View attachment 168596

Celtic fans will be displaying pro-Palestian banners at tonights game v Atletico https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-67215217

Stay classy

And now the club have suspended all of the Green Brigade's season tickets until further notice

Celtic ban Green Brigade fans’ group from attending home matches

The move comes after the Green Brigade ignored the club’s pleas and went ahead with a Palestinian flag display in the Champions League

www.theguardian.com

Just had to push it, didn't they.

 

[Insel affe]

Probably best to leave God out of it - charged with enough religiosity as it is with people claiming to know what God wants …

Yeah your probably right, considering we don’t know which one to blame, that and non of them exist anyway.

 

[bWize]

RIP to all the innocent people who have died caught up in this slaughter. Dark days for humanity.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

And now the club have suspended all of the Green Brigade's season tickets until further notice

Celtic ban Green Brigade fans’ group from attending home matches

The move comes after the Green Brigade ignored the club’s pleas and went ahead with a Palestinian flag display in the Champions League

www.theguardian.com

Just had to push it, didn't they

Fair play to them for standing up for what they believe in and not backing down to threats.

I am finding the anti-Israeli backlash interesting, it's becoming widespread and challenging authority and the west's long held orthodoxy in its position on israel. Possibly dangerous in the long run too, the sooner Western govs start to recognise the nuance in this situation the better.

 

[Zeberdi]

That may be the case Harry but let's take the moral high ground. I am hating the current position this government (total government as all main parties) are supporting Israel in everything they do... Too many are frightened of the anti-Semitic card but f***ing hell we can't sit by and allow slaughter.

I would suggest that the lack of support for the Palestinians arises not out of a fear of contradicting Israel but of Islamophobic attitudes towards Muslim/Palestinians, that to me is becoming increasingly clear in recent days with attitudes towards the protestors and the rhetoric from our political leaders - the ‘fear of being accused of being anti-semitic’ is largely a cover for a deeper antipathy towards islam imo and an excuse not to speak out in defence of Palestinians (including the many thousands of British citizens being demonised for marching for peace) . But that’s arguable and only one view based on personal subjective experience and it does not detract from the reality that people who do criticise Israel have been accused of anti-semitism by some people - I say just look below the surface of who is doing the accusing and ask what their agenda is towards Islam.

As far as British support for Israel, while it may not be entirely unequivocal, it is a hard tradition to break - Britain historically has backed the State ideology of Zionism from its conception and sees Israel as a political and strategic ally in the Middle East - Israel has support from the UK because that is our policy and it always has been. Britain has a history too of using Israel to do its dirty work, notably in recent history, attacking Egypt over its nationalisation of the main Suez Canal international shipping company, in 1956. Since that fiasco, we have become a US junior partner, following the US in our foreign policy decisions - the US’s reliance on Middle Eastern oil has made that even more problematic,

We helped arm Israel to the teeth in the 60s which propped up Israel in the 1967 6 Day War (followed by the Occupation of Gaza and the West Bank/Golan Heights) - The illegal Occupation by Israel of the Palestinian territories was made possible because of our supply of tanks. Like the US, the survival of Israel is fundamental to our policy in the Middle East. That relationship of unequivocal support became complicated and more circumspect when we and the US sought normalisation relationships with Arab States over oil interests - it is those relationships with the Arab world that are at threat now while our UK government stands on the sidelines, implicitly supporting what is in my mind, no doubt, genocide of the Palestinian population in the Occupied Palestinian Territories with a view to further annexation and one state solution.

The only hope of the Palestinian people is our reliance on the Middle East for oil - we already have an embargo on oil/gas imports from Russia - a war in the ME could have devastating effects on the global oil trade and send fuel prices rocketing - there will come a point where antagonism of the Arab world by this genocidal war will force the US/UK in voting for a ceasefire to protect our oil interests.

To see how history is repeating itself, in Gaza as it was in Occupied Lebanon in 1982, this makes for essential reading:

Sabra and Shatila massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thatcher, denounced Israel’s acquiescence to the attack on Lebanese Palestinian refugee camps by Christian Phalangist militiamen in the Sabra and Shatila massacre, as barbaric - An attack Ariel Sharon the Defence Minister (later Prime Minister) claimed was justified to out PLO members.

“Once Palestinian and Lebanese civilians were sealed inside the camp, over the course of three days, 16 - 18 September 1982, thousands of Palestinian refugees and Lebanese civilians were violently raped, mutilated and tortured. Up to 3,500 were savagely slaughtered under the oversight of the Israeli occupation forces. “

Israel’s war in Gaza revives Sabra and Shatila massacre memories in Lebanon

Survivors of the 1982 massacre by an Israel-backed militia in Lebanon say what Gaza is going through is even worse.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Zeberdi]

Yeah your probably right, considering we don’t know which one to blame, that and non of them exist anyway.

You do seem to have a particular personal antipathy to religion, that comes across in many of your posts tbh (and perhaps justifiably so - and maybe based too on personal negative experiences (which I could certainly relate to!) - but I think as Karl Marx did that ‘religion‘ is the ‘opium’ by which the ‘masses’ are convinced their lives are better than they are and blinds them to their oppressive status - it also can make them vulnerable to those who would manipulate their religious belief to serve a more machiavellian purpose - state sponsored ‘religion’ is frequently used to convince the peoples to follow political ideologies that have nothing more than territorial power, political dominance and selective racial assertiveness as in their core objectives. That does not mean to say all religious experience is invalid or inauthentic or that there is no room for genuine spirituality in our world - I think there is.

Religion isn’t the cause of conflict imo, on the contrary, most religions advocate peace and love but it is certainly been used as a dog whistle and casus belli for wars, since time immemorial …