[News] Middle East conflict

[salazar]

But fair

Final word

 

[Zeberdi]

Think you are greatly underplaying the threat from Iran, Israelis are shit scared that Iran will do something be it nuclear, chemical or biological. But even if you feel that is unlikely let's concentrate on Hamas and Hezbollah, the latter is a very powerful military organisation which might not defeat Israel militarily but it will inflict many thousands of casualties.

Most Israelis are caught in a trap, same as the Palestinians, they have grown up used to conflict which has threatened their existence but there were still many who thought peace was the way to go. That number will have been greatly reduced over the last week. Similarly a new generation of Hamas will be created out of this.

I’m not ‘downplaying’ anything and do perfectly understand the dynamics of radicalisation….

Read back through my threads if you think I’m downplaying anything - fear of escalation and the risk of it spilling over into a regional conflict if Hezbollah was brought into the the War was one of the first posts I made, the first day or so after the Hamas Attack - I’ve also talked previously about radicalisation.

I’m just trying, at very challenging time, be level headed and realistic, avoid rash thinking, or make overly biased judgments, or assert inequitable opinions and avoid homogeneity in my approach because I don’t think any of that is helpful for the purposes of finding a solution or even a sensible debate on what is a very emotive subject that spans a diversity of opinion.

I do know a little something of the Israel/Palestinian conflict and have followed the issues for years and actually I was signing petitions, going on marches and standing in solidarity with the Palestinians 40 years ago - I have a little metal badge somewhere and was trying to find it last night! - I was also at the same time as being involved with the Palestine peace movement, exploring ways to express my Jewish identity in a more tangible way and dealing with the impact the Holocaust had had (and continues to have) on my close family members - that wasn't an easy balance for me but I think I found it.

I think in any context, the key to finding an equitable view point is to do your homework on the fact checking and avoid hyperbole


(When did Iran acquire the Nuclear Weapons btw?! That’s a new one on me ….)

 

[1066familyman]

See #1382 & stop harassing me.

Can I ask my question for the third time please?, since I still haven't got a response of any sort.

See post #1,441 for the latest version of it.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Can I ask my question for the third time please?, since I still haven't got a response of any sort.

See post #1,441 for the latest version of it.

You will not get an answer or anywhere near a debate. SF just gives his myopic opinion without any context and expects everyone to agree and follow his stance. Typical politician even a small fry one.

 

[Guinness Boy]

This was a bit more than luck.

In terms of horrific atrocities, 9/11 saw a dozen terrorists or so take over 4 flights. There was a lot of luck needed to pull that off.

But over 1,500 militants crossing the border unnoticed? Sorry, that’s profound incompetence from Israeli intelligence. I think this is one of the reasons why the reaction is so overbearing. Hit back hard before the Israeli public can start asking questions. I’m guessing that politicians have got too involved in the IDF and weakened it significantly over the years.

Neither of us know, but I doubt they were unnoticed. By then probably too late. No Israeli soldiers at kibbutzs or raves I would think and militants coming from three directions under the cover of sustained rocket fire.

Where they effed up is in not knowing about it in advance, rather than not being able to stop it in progress.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Why would you expect a current Tory Councillor who previously resigned in spring 2019 over jokes he posted on FaceBook with, inter alia, “Islamaphobic” content to agree with Labour about Israel?

I've always found it strange that this chap posts under the name Steve Foster, with a photo of him, yet isn't Steve Foster. Other posters have names of ficitional characters or real people but with a pun added, is this the only poster who simply uses someone else's name? Weird. Now you are saying he's a Tory Councillor? Add in the opinions he has on this thread.....keep posting Steve Foster, you are a constant reminder not to vote Conservative again (having done so at least once but not more than twice over 35 years).

 

[1066familyman]

You will not get an answer or anywhere near a debate. SF just gives his myopic opinion without any context and expects everyone to agree and follow his stance. Typical politician even a small fry one.

It's increasingly appearing so, but I'm just keen to see if that is indeed the case or if that poster actually wants to engage in a debate. I'm only asking the question as that poster is the most vociferous in claiming that the Israeli Government needs to destroy Hamas by whatever means necessary.

It's curious that this story appeared a few days ago too. https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...-account-linked-hamas-fundraising-2023-10-11/

Maybe, just maybe, Netanyahu's position regarding funding Hamas has now changed, and also his position of supporting them to destroying them has changed too.

Seems a bit convenient that this action comes after the horrific Hamas attack, rather than before. Maybe his agents only just found out about this account, or that this particular account has only just been set up. I'm trying to be as generous with the benefit of the doubt as possible here.

 

[Wozza]

Another amazing video. Actually made me teary.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

There are no winners here. But I will add that this is why I really cannot stand religion, it is the primary cause of most bloody wars. Shove it up your arse for all I'm concerned. We are all equal, we don't need further division. Hamas DO need to wiped off the earth and Palestine DOES deserve to be unified with the West Bank and they DO deserve a fresh start to a free and safe healthy future. BUT we should be there sorting this out from a diplomatic standpoint or even putting the wheels in motion to set up a new government and rebuild the country, a government that gets democratically elected by the Palestinians, for when Israel does inevitable destroy Gaza,

 

[Zeberdi]

I guess the real question is what should Israel do now? How many active Hamas members are there ? What % of the people in Palestine have Hamas links?

This misery will go on for years now won't it.

Well all of them will have ‘links’ I would think - some quite tenuously - Hamas is (or was until a few days ago) the ruling Palestinian Authority party too - I get the impression a few people seem to think that ‘Hamas’ is some renegade, independent Terrorist guerrilla group just hiding in places scattered around Gaza- while they are that too, they are also the elected government and part of infrastructure that holds Gaza together. Since they have a history of killing their opposition as they overran the Fatah party of the PA in 2007 (who was left to run The West Bank), no one contests them - Gaza is run by Hamas like a military dictatorship or perhaps more accurately, a highly militarised Cosa Nostra group defending it’s territory from other terrorists groups and it retains its own power as government.

Yes

 

[1066familyman]

I Disagree with you. The Israeli Government, USA, UK Government & Opposition all disagree too.
Israel has a right to defend itself from tyranny & a few posters on a football forum several thousand miles are not going to hold sway.

We also have a right to question why there appears to be a divide and rule tactic being employed by the current Israeli Government that has resulted in the death of many innocent Israelis and Palestinians, and will continue to do so.

The US and UK Governments of course have, over many many years, proven form on divide and rule tactics, both in the Middle East and elsewhere.

I'm still curious to hear your response.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

There are no winners here. But I will add that this is why I really cannot stand religion, it is the primary cause of most bloody wars. Shove it up your arse for all I'm concerned. We are all equal, we don't need further division. Hamas DO need to wiped off the earth and Palestine DOES deserve to be unified with the West Bank and they DO deserve a fresh start to a free and safe healthy future. BUT we should be there sorting this out from a diplomatic standpoint or even putting the wheels in motion to set up a new government and rebuild the country, a government that gets democratically elected by the Palestinians, for when Israel does inevitable destroy Gaza,

Should force both sides to watch a few episodes of Brian Cox and reevaluate their beliefs..

 

[carlzeiss]

 

[JamieR]

Strike on civilian convoy fleeing Gaza: What we know from verified video

Women and children were killed in Friday's strike on vehicles that were heading away from northern Gaza.

www.bbc.co.uk

See how Steve F justifies this. He'll probably say it's fake news

 

[aolstudios]

Well all of them will have ‘links’ I would think - some quite tenuously - Hamas is (or was until a few days ago) the ruling Palestinian Authority party too - I get the impression a few people seem to think that ‘Hamas’ is some renegade, independent Terrorist guerrilla group just hiding in places scattered around Gaza- while they are that too, they are also the elected government and part of infrastructure that holds Gaza together. Since they have a history of killing their opposition as they overran the Fatah party of the PA in 2007 (who was left to run The West Bank), no one contests them - Gaza is run by Hamas like a military dictatorship or perhaps more accurately, a highly militarised Cosa Nostra group defending it’s territory from other terrorists groups and it retains its own power as government.

Yes

Elected government.
Currently in its 18th year without an election

 

[LamieRobertson]

Rumours about the water supply being turned back on..thank goodness!

Electricity and food supplies next please …plus stop the obvious

 

[Bakero]

G.

Elected government.
Currently in its 18th year without an election

As Zeberdi said, they tend to kill off any opposition.

 

[Krafty]

56 Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank by Israeli settlers, and a further 1,250 injured whilst Israeli soldiers act as bystanders to these events.
The Palestinian Red Crescent has been denied from accessing the wounded, some staff have been detained and there has been firing on medical crews and ambulances.

This has been recently reported by the BBC.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There are no winners here. But I will add that this is why I really cannot stand religion, it is the primary cause of most bloody wars. Shove it up your arse for all I'm concerned. We are all equal, we don't need further division. Hamas DO need to wiped off the earth and Palestine DOES deserve to be unified with the West Bank and they DO deserve a fresh start to a free and safe healthy future. BUT we should be there sorting this out from a diplomatic standpoint or even putting the wheels in motion to set up a new government and rebuild the country, a government that gets democratically elected by the Palestinians, for when Israel does inevitable destroy Gaza,

Scum exploit religion rather like they exploit politics, 'culture wars', and the general fear of 'other'.

As a devout athiest I have no problem with religion as such. Provided it is kept as a private matter.

and à propos of nothing, I heard some numpty 'boxer' explaining his plans 'with the will of god' again on radio 5 this morning. I'd love it if the interviewers started asking them about this god, what he actually said, and where to go to get an interview. If the boxer had said 'my invisible friend' it would have taken nothing from the narrative.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Should force both sides to watch a few episodes of Brian Cox and reevaluate their beliefs..

Faith trumps fact. Fact. They would love being made to watch it, sadly.