[News] Middle East conflict

[Guinness Boy]

We have to mindful of swallowing some of stories in the fog of war (both sides)

Example 1. This story made the front page of many of our newspapers yet is still unconfirmed. This of course is deliberate propaganda to win hearts and minds.

There is no proof Palestinian fighters ‘beheaded’ babies. The only source is a radical settler.

U.S. and international media outlets are repeating Israeli claims that Palestinian fighters “beheaded” babies. These unverified claims aren’t just sloppy journalism — they are being used to justify a massacre.

mondoweiss.net

You mentioned the pregnant woman with her foetus cut out.

This came from a twitter user who was then community noted - actually quoting the community notes this is ''a report of the Sabra and Shatila massacre of Palestinian people by Israel in 1982''.

Of course Hamas will have killed innocent people of all ages and committed horrible acts but we should more cautious about swallowing everything that we are fed (from both sides)

Remember the Kuwait/Iraqi incubator mass murder story - presented in the US senate. It helped turned US opinion (hearts and minds) against Iraqis. That turned out to be completely false.

The goal is to dehumanise Palestinians and justify the massacres happening and to come.

I have to bring up when you say ''I totally understand that Israel hasn’t treated the Palestinians well over the years''.

''Hasnt treated well' is a gross gross understatement. Apartheid, murder and incarceration is a more accurate description.

Again, the account you’re replying to isn’t genuine, but a sock puppet set up by a user who was thread banned. You’re about the third or fourth to reply to him AFTER Bozza clarified this.

Frankly it just shows people are diving in with their own prejudices rather than reading the whole thread.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Again, the account you’re replying to isn’t genuine, but a sock puppet set up by a user who was thread banned. You’re about the third or fourth to reply to him AFTER Bozza clarified this.

Frankly it just shows people are diving in with their own prejudices rather than reading the whole thread.

I don't believe anyone has confirmed that @RodgerT was yet another duplicate account. Why aren't duplicate accounts banned when they are simply set up to lie and cause confusion on NSC ?

Or, if duplicate accounts are allowed, at least make sure thread bans and bans go across all of a Poster's duplicate accounts or what's the point of bans

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Then why aren't duplicate accounts banned when they are simply set up to lie and cause confusion on NSC ?

Or, if duplicate accounts are allowed, at least make sure thread bans and bans go across all of a Poster's duplicate accounts or what's the point of bans

The poster in question was banned. He THEN set up this new account, which was immediately banned once identified.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The poster in question was banned. He THEN set up this new account, which was immediately banned once identified.

Sorry, and apologies to @Guinness Boy. Just realised that disgusting post from yet another duplicate account was from a long time ago. You guys do a sterling job given some of the absolute vile ****s you have to try and moderate

 

[Guinness Boy]

The poster in question was banned. He THEN set up this new account, which was immediately banned once identified.

Which, again, would be perfectly obvious if people had read last night's posts properly.

 

[Bozza]

Then why aren't duplicate accounts banned when they are simply set up to lie and cause confusion on NSC ?

Or, if duplicate accounts are allowed, at least make sure thread bans and bans go across all of a Poster's duplicate accounts or what's the point of bans

1. I spend a significant amount of my time vetting and validating every new account that joins NSC every single day. I weed out any bad actors I find when I do this. If anything I'm too cautious. Most weeks I will have two or three genuine new users I rejected who email me to ask why. The upside of my approach is I can't remember the last time we had a bot or spammer getting through and hitting the board.

2. It's not possible to identify all duplicate accounts at point of registration. Someone determined not to be "recognised" will almost certainly get in.

3. In this very specific case, there was nothing to indicate there was anything untoward with the account at the point of registration.

4. ...however, after a few posts were made, suspicions aroused, and further checks identified the duplicate account. I repeat though, it would not have been possible to identify this at the time the account was created.

But, please tell me how you'd do it, preferably not with one of your trademark sarcastic emojis.

 

[Bakero]

As far as 'human rights' are concerned I am afraid Hamas has already kissed those goodbye.

Who's talking about the human rights of Hamas?

 

[Bakero]

 

[BadFish]

Which, again, would be perfectly obvious if people had read last night's posts properly.

I am not sure we can all be expected to read all posts. I have heard that some people manage to spend significant periods of time away from NSC. . . .


. . . . yeah sorry, I'll shit up now.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I am not sure we can all be expected to read all posts. I have heard that some people manage to spend significant periods of time away from NSC. . . .


. . . . yeah sorry, I'll shit up now.

There's a bit of a difference between reading all of the posts on all of the threads and having a proper catch up on the two or three you're currently interested in

 

[shingle]

You talk of prejudices GB, but the levels of obfuscation from some NSCers regarding @steve Fosters long take on the situation (in which most of it was spot on by the way) was very depressing, its almost as if some people couldn't believe that Israel could ever be a victim in any situation

 

[BadFish]

There's a bit of a difference between reading all of the posts on all of the threads and having a proper catch up on the two or three you're currently interested in

hang on i thought we were required to post on all threads as often as possible, otherwise, Bozza and Amazon come knocking.

 

[Bakero]

You talk of prejudices GB, but the levels of obfuscation from some NSCers regarding @steve Fosters long take on the situation (in which most of it was spot on by the way) was very depressing, its almost as if some people couldn't believe that Israel could ever be a victim in any situation

No, the problem is Steve Foster presented a predictably one-sided version of history. It's no surprise that he got short shrift from those that have a more balanced view of the situation.

 

[Hastings gull]

Indeed.

What some don't seem to understand is that it's perfectly possible to find the acts by Hamas utterly horrific and atrocious whilst also believing the Israeli state to be operating in a not-dissimilar way. One group has access to highly sophisticated weaponry enabling them to inflict their terror at arm's length, whilst the other engages in close proximity with guns. The end result of both? Lots of innocent people suffering and dying.

The "you started it" argument doesn't wash with me right now because this whole thing didn't start last weekend - it's been going on for decades - back and forth. Beyond that, it wasn't the general population of Gaza who piled across the border into Israel hellbent on inflicting terror, but it's that general population that is now paying the biggest possible price.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'm not sure if levelling Gaza is the right approach. It strikes me that this may only serve to disenfranchise a whole new generation of young person intent on seeking revenge on Israel in the future.

Yes, fully agree in that it has been going on for ages and both sides must share some of the blame for this. My brother was in the area for years and often said that the Israelis were quite vindictive towards the Palestinians, which doubtless goes some way to explaining their hatred of Israel, not that that justifies Hamas's barbarism. Hamas took the action this did knowing full well that the Israelis would react in the way they are, so they cannot claim to be the innocent victims.

I looked up on Wikipedia the results of the last election held in Gaza to which some posters refer -Hamas with their well-known agenda of wishing to destroy the state of Israel polled just over 44% of the vote with the rest going to several other parties. After 17 years of doubtless relentless propaganda aimed at Israel, I would be surprised if that level of support had diminished. Yes, there will be many Gazans horrified at Hamas's action and just want peace but equally there will be many jubilant at Israeli deaths, however barbaric. The likely pictures to come on our screens, sadly, of young children in Gaza with horrible injuries will make for very uncomfortable viewing, to put it mildly, but the thousands of Gazans all too keen to push Hamas's agenda cannot regard themselves as innocent victims, though will doubtless do so.

Both sides need to sit down around a table and find compromise, but after so long, it does not seem likely.

 

[BadFish]

You talk of prejudices GB, but the levels of obfuscation from some NSCers regarding @steve Fosters long take on the situation (in which most of it was spot on by the way) was very depressing, its almost as if some people couldn't believe that Israel could ever be a victim in any situation

It was only spot on from a certain perspective. Not exactly what you would call balanced.

It did get me wondering what Israel would have to do to invoke criticism from certain posters.

I fear that we are about to find out how far they can push the loyalty.

 

[aolstudios]

You talk of prejudices GB, but the levels of obfuscation from some NSCers regarding @steve Fosters long take on the situation (in which most of it was spot on by the way) was very depressing, its almost as if some people couldn't believe that Israel could ever be a victim in any situation

Well, exactly

 

[WATFORD zero]

1. I spend a significant amount of my time vetting and validating every new account that joins NSC every single day. I weed out any bad actors I find when I do this. If anything I'm too cautious. Most weeks I will have two or three genuine new users I rejected who email me to ask why. The upside of my approach is I can't remember the last time we had a bot or spammer getting through and hitting the board.

2. It's not possible to identify all duplicate accounts at point of registration. Someone determined not to be "recognised" will almost certainly get in.

3. In this very specific case, there was nothing to indicate there was anything untoward with the account at the point of registration.

4. ...however, after a few posts were made, suspicions aroused, and further checks identified the duplicate account. I repeat though, it would not have been possible to identify this at the time the account was created.

But, please tell me how you'd do it, preferably not with one of your trademark sarcastic emojis.

I've already apologised as I didn't read the posts from last night and wasn't aware this was a new account, but simply thought it was another duplicate account from the usual posters. Again, I believe your actions yesterday to be absolutely excellent thank you.

As I'm sure you're aware dishonesty on serious subjects is one of the things that winds me up a lot and it seems to me that duplicate accounts are generally (with a few very obvious exceptions) set up to be dishonest and try to confuse honest posters on NSC. So when I see posts from yourself or other mods confirming duplicate accounts for non humorous purposes, I wonder why they are allowed to continue. But your Board, your rules, which I respect and is why I have spent so many years posting on here.

I appreciate that you and the mods work very hard keeping this Board running well. I am aware that it is not easy to identify duplicate accounts with any significant degree of certainty without significant history.

So, once again I apologise and genuinely thank you again for the work your team put in (without any hint of sarcasm)

And back to the topic

 

[Guinness Boy]

You talk of prejudices GB, but the levels of obfuscation from some NSCers regarding @steve Fosters long take on the situation (in which most of it was spot on by the way) was very depressing, its almost as if some people couldn't believe that Israel could ever be a victim in any situation

You say most of it was spot on. I say it contained two massively factually incorrect statements that I've already picked him up on, and that he's not replied to. Not to mention @Steve Foster is no stranger to prejudice.

As for your last point I really don't see states as being victims in any conflict. I see people as victims and every single one, on both "sides" who has either been killed, maimed or bereaved is a tragedy.

 

[Eeyore]

As far as 'human rights' are concerned I am afraid Hamas has already kissed those goodbye.

It would appear that entire population of Gaza has too.

 

[shingle]

I like to think that I have a balanced view of the situation and I think he quoted many well established facts, not opinions of his.

I have been to Israel many times in the 90's as a press photographer during the intifadas and have seen first hand the situation, I do have sympathy for the Palestinian cause, but I also recognize when horrific crimes have been committed against innocent Jewish people without resorting to whataboutery