[News] Middle East conflict

[Zeberdi]

So with the UK governments clear line 100% support of Israel I guess we won't be doing any more deals with the Qataris? Not to mention RAF Squadron and all that...

Hamas maintains its main office in Doha an receives a large part of its funding from there, reportedly between $360 million and $480 million a year, a third goes to pay the salaries of Hamas bureaucrats

It has offices too in Turkey too (the but the Hamas’ military wing has been kicked out - )

“While Iran is clearly supporting Hamas militarily, Turkey provides political support and relief funding. Meanwhile, Qatar handles both financial and political support through its grants. This diversity will help protect Hamas’ presence abroad

Hamas fears Turkish pressure will follow Israel-Turkey normalization

As Ankara's relations with Israel warm, Hamas is carefully maintaining its presence in Turkey.

www.al-monitor.com

That’s why ‘normalising relationships’ with Israel has been seen by Israel as so important for building peace between Israel and the Arab States - Israel wants these sportswashing Gulf States, if not Allies at least peaceful neighbours - Saudi’s working with EU on a Peace plan and the US on acquiring nuclear energy, Turkey wanting accession to the EU (probably never gonna happen) but a main player in brokering ceasefires between Hamas and Israel and an important NATO ally - those doors probably need to stay open for wider geopolitical reasons too - lots of quid pro quos in the field of players

Hamas fears Turkish pressure will follow Israel-Turkey normalization

As Ankara's relations with Israel warm, Hamas is carefully maintaining its presence in Turkey.

www.al-monitor.com

 

[nicko31]

I have no idea what that means and my head’s on fine thanks

Of course they’d know the response would be severe but a suicide mission? Loosing their rule in Gaza? - They have put themselves in jeopardy more than any time in their history but it remains to be seen whether Israel wants to change the situation in Gaza from what it was before 10/7 - She does not want to re-occupy Gaza which would be the only way of kicking Hamas out and will be very costly in human lives - Abbas/the PA will also be concerned about Hamas’s boost to it’s popularity and increasing violence in the West Bank so we shall see.

Edit - Sky news saying much the same thing - the agenda is to replace Hamas and troops into Gaza looking increasingly likely - 2014 wasn’t on this scale of this is a response

Jake Marlowe, British man who was missing after Hamas attack in Israel, is confirmed dead

As the conflict intensifies, 17 British nationals are feared dead or missing after the attack in Israel by Hamas on Saturday. The violence since the weekend has already claimed more than 2,000 lives on both sides, with many expecting further escalations.

news.sky.com

Where will 2m people go in the event of a ground incursion?
View attachment 167934

Blimey 1 mile nautical limit. They can't even catch fish...

 

[Zeberdi]

It will be interesting to see whether the Israeli State withholding the transfer of a commodity like power/water from the Palestinian National Authority (over which Israel has no control) is an international crime in law. They may argue that they have ceased trading that commodity. Theoretically, Egypt could supply power, but as the Egyptians dislike Hamas as well, that's unlikely.

I don't think Starmer can say much more about the situation. There's little the UK can do but express alarm and concern. We really don't have much sway in the world anymore.

They’ve only cut off the power to Gaza (I don’t mean ‘only’ like its not much) not to the West Bank or East Jerusalem- the PA is the ruling party in the West Bank - they are very unlikely to cut off power in the PA ruling West Bank since Abbas works glove in hand with the Israeli’s to control resistance!

PS Starmer has proven to me he’s a total self-serving twanker and won’t be getting my vote at the next election, I would rather not exercise the right to vote

 

[nicko31]

They’ve only cut off the power to Gaza (I don’t mean ‘only’ like its not much) not to the West Bank or East Jerusalem- the PA is the ruling party in the West Bank - they are very unlikely to cut off power in the PA ruling West Bank since Abbas works glove in hand with the Israeli’s to control resistance!

PS Starmer has proven to me he’s a total self-serving twanker and won’t be getting my vote at the next election, I would rather not exercise the right to vote

Starmer is paranoid if he sways from the Tory line they will pull the "Corbyn's pulling the strings" card on him. He knows its more nuanced but won't take the risk.

Remember, even if Starmer isn't your cup of tea by not voting you aid the Tories...

 

[Justice]

Shelia Fogerty getting herself in a mess on LBC.

 

[Questions]

But that wasn’t your statement though so not what I was replying to! And yes, to the above, if you had read my earlier posts, Ive already said as much as have many of us.

Again, I’d be interested to know upon what evidence/source material do you have to show that Hamas knew what Isreal would do next, based on the last 30 years of conflict, a limited missile strike/bombardment of key Hamas positions yes, and punishment dehoming yes, including a significant loss of life, but not the full scale of Isreal’s response would be, (unless they had intelligence to that end in advance)? - not even Mossad managed to anticipate the degree of Hamas’s incursion into Israel in a spectacular failing of one of the most sophisticated intelligence communities in the world - I honestly can’t see that Hamas foresaw the scale of Israel’s response - none of us did even after 10/7 - not until Netanyahu’s declared it. Netanyahu has declared a protracted war until Hamas is no longer able to operate in Gaza - this is a significant policy change from Israel to controlling terrorist activities in the Gaza Strip that is currently run by Hamas politically - one would find it hard to believe this is going to be like 2014 - ground troops never went in in 2014 for one thing. We’ll see, but if Netanyahu’s word is to be believed, this is already looking to be heading into an unprecedented escalation and change in trajectory since Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005.

No it’s not

 

[Seaview Seagull]

Ones man Jihadists is another mans freedom fighters.

Not so in this case. A freedom fighter cannot be someone who wishes to destroy a foreign country as Hama's does and seeks to do it by killing civilians. The Mandela case is completely different - he was fighting for freedom in his own country. False equivalence is very dangerous. Hamas is clearly provoking an extreme response from Israel to try and force Arab states to act against Israel. It won't work but will bring total disaster to the ordinary people of Gaza. Just for clarity I don't support a disastrous right wing Israeli government which builds illegal settlements by seizing Palestinian land. That does not excuse a Hamas terror campaign.

 

[Zeberdi]

Starmer is paranoid if he sways from the Tory line they will pull the "Corbyn's pulling the strings" card on him. He knows its more nuanced but won't take the risk.

Remember, even if Starmer isn't your cup of tea by not voting you aid the Tories...

By voting Green (which would be the only alternative here) I would too but at least they’ve got a bloody backbone

Statement from the Green Party on the Israel-Gaza conflict | The Green Party

www.greenparty.org.uk

 

[Questions]

Having seen the first page of the Holly Willoughby thread (granted, it was started in 2010), you're welcome to it, and I'll carry on enjoying the current iteration.

What if the UN sent Holly Willybig to the problem area. She has true compassion as we saw with Philip.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Not so in this case. A freedom fighter cannot be someone who wishes to destroy a foreign country as Hama's does and seeks to do it by killing civilians. The Mandela case is completely different - he was fighting for freedom in his own country. False equivalence is very dangerous. Hamas is clearly provoking an extreme response from Israel to try and force Arab states to act against Israel. It won't work but will bring total disaster to the ordinary people of Gaza. Just for clarity I don't support a disastrous right wing Israeli government which builds illegal settlements by seizing Palestinian land. That does not excuse a Hamas terror campaign.

You’re wrong here. Hamas literally means Islamic resistance movement! So to many they are freedom fighters, to Israel and others they are terrorists. No different to how people looked at the IRA back in the day tbh.

 

[Questions]

Edit : insensitive and racist post

 

[Machiavelli]

In Gaza and Israel, side with the child over the gun | Naomi Klein

Some continue to minimize massacres of Israeli civilians - this only fuels militant Zionism

www.theguardian.com

 

[nicko31]

In Gaza and Israel, side with the child over the gun | Naomi Klein

Some continue to minimize massacres of Israeli civilians - this only fuels militant Zionism

www.theguardian.com

There was some vile person at Novara Media who was celebrating Israeli deaths but these people are few and far between.

Most people know there are 2 sides in this long running conflict and have a more measured view of the situation than our own government

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

I’m retired so have more time than many but I often can’t keep up with all the posts that appear. Anyway when I looked at this thread a couple of days ago or so it was maybe page 17 and so coming to it again today I just read the past couple of pages - a lot of it was about little to do with the crisis in Israel/Gaza et al and more about the virtues or otherwise of NSC!!
Imo the tragedy unfolding now is caused by an unwillingness of the major force to show sufficient desire to find a peaceful long term solution.
On the more frivolous subject I remain very appreciative of Bozza in running NSC and providing an entertaining and informative forum for Albion fans! UTA!

 

[Krafty]

After reading many articles about the Israel-Palestinian conflict, it makes me realise how f*cked up this whole situation is.

 

[Hamilton]

They’ve only cut off the power to Gaza (I don’t mean ‘only’ like its not much) not to the West Bank or East Jerusalem- the PA is the ruling party in the West Bank - they are very unlikely to cut off power in the PA ruling West Bank since Abbas works glove in hand with the Israeli’s to control resistance!

PS Starmer has proven to me he’s a total self-serving twanker and won’t be getting my vote at the next election, I would rather not exercise the right to vote

You'll get 10 more years of Tory rule then.

What do you think Starmer could say that would not be seized upon by one party or another as an example of misjudgement?

Right now, this is not a priority for Labour. The priority is to get elected. It's the same priority for Sunak, which is why he's junking everything and hoping that a populist wave will re-emerge and give him victory or at least stem Tory losses. I hope Sunak is wrong, but sadly I fear he is not. We're still far too insular politically and will probably vote for anything that is anti-woke or deemed to be conservative. Big change right now (outside of growth) is not an election winner.

On the power to West Bank issue I agree. The Palestinian leaders there are probably hoping that Hamas can be cut down quickly without creating trouble in their own backyard. Let's remember that they hate Hamas too.

 

[Hamilton]

You’re wrong here. Hamas literally means Islamic resistance movement! So to many they are freedom fighters, to Israel and others they are terrorists. No different to how people looked at the IRA back in the day tbh.

That's wrong. Hamas believe in the destruction of Israel. They are anti-semites. They talk explicitly about the struggle between Islan and Judaism. It's what they are about. They are terrorists. They are not interested in peace of any kind.

 

[Mr Bridger]

What if the UN sent Holly Willybig to the problem area. She has true compassion as we saw with Philip.

Get the team back together again with Schofi Annan.

​

 

[aolstudios]

Would you blow up a food bank and then complain that they don't feed you any more? If Israel is the Gaza Strip's food bank, it shows how monumentally stupid they are for attacking them. (Or more likely. how determined they are to eliminate Israel even at the expense of their own people's suffering.)

They've had 20 years in power and loads of available funds from Iran - they could have built their own power stations. What did they spend it on?

Hamas has given up on responsibility for their own people. The only option is that Hamas should be removed from power. Who's going to do it?

This ^
All of it

 

[aolstudios]

Jeremy Bowen came pretty close to it when he challenged a senior officer at the site of the kibbutz slaughter asking if the government was right to bomb Gaza.

Jeremy Bowen would