LamieRobertson
Not awoke
Thanks for those links
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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
Some hope. Needed this.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,909
Relevance?
SeagullinExile
Well-known member
You’re correct. No one on this thread has said they hate Israel, but I’d suggest many do detest Israeli foreign policy.
The thing that winds me up is that whenever anybody slags Israel off, they nearly always get accused of being an anti-Semite. This is just wrong, and it makes people reluctant to speak out publicly. For me, my criticism of Israel has nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with humanity.
A few people have suggested the same, and some seem to be quite sure, but there is no data I have available to me that backs that up yet.
Given the posting styles and consistent themes, I can see why you thought as you did.
I'll add some people seem to be trying very hard to disguise their NSC usage right now. When people who are sitting in Sussex consistently access the site from overseas IP addresses, my Spidey Senses tingle. That generally doesn't happen unless they have something they are trying to hide.
1066familyman
Radio User
- Jan 15, 2008
- 15,233
I'll ask again, since you may have missed the post where I asked you before.
What is your view on Netanyahu telling members of his own party that they need to support Hamas if they don't wish there to a be a two state solution?
Again, just in case you missed it the first time, here's the Haaretz article link for you:
Weststander
Well-known member
Anti semites have been around on nsc, but when outed, they got banned one earlier this year.
Anti semitism is a very real and growing thing in the UK. LBC journalists for example have described it in the past as a three-pronged attack - some hard left, Islamic extremists and far right/Icke types. Attacks and threats rose markedly after Hamas raped and carried out infanticide last week.
This subject in general most people seem to have a very set view either way, unwavering through the decades. I’ve spoke with people this week who think they know it all from some online research, I was told that the Jewish people have absolutely no historical connection with the lands we know as Palestine/Israel. When balanced radio presenters such as Shelagh Fogerty talked about last Saturday’s murders she was told that she/LBC/BBC were fascists.
You may not be an anti semite, but you’d be surprised at how much there is in this country. It’s they who conflate Isreal and its right wing governments actions, with ordinary people in the UK who happen to have Jewish heritage.
1066familyman
Radio User
- Jan 15, 2008
- 15,233
Are they really? How so?
chimneys
Well-known member
- Jun 11, 2007
- 3,609
In my observations, whilst SF comments are often, they are typically lightweight, normally Daily Mail deep in nature, if that helps!
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,909
A link and extract to an article sent to me by a Jewish relative earlier
JEWISH GRIEF MUST NOT BE USED AS A WEAPON OF WAR “
“It is in our tradition to sit shiva for seven days—to pause to reflect and to mourn. But I cannot sit back while Jewish grief and trauma is weaponized by the Israeli government to destroy Gaza. As I write this, Israel just announced that the 1.1 million Palestinians in northern Gaza—half of them children—will have 24 hours to flee, which the UN has already deemed impossible. The US government is beating the drums of war, rushing to send more weapons to the Israeli military to wreak utter devastation.
We do not need to choose between grieving and acting. As our forebears taught us, we must mourn the dead by fighting like hell for the living.
Make no mistake: The Israeli government is using genocidal rhetoric against Palestinians. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu asserted: What we will do to our enemies will reverberate for generations.” The Israeli minister of defence announced the complete and total closure of Gaza, saying, “No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals, and we act accordingly.” The Israeli president is refusing to distinguish between Palestinian civilians and Hamas fighters.
We as Jews know all too well how dangerous this rhetoric is, the way in which the unthinkable becomes acceptable when we deny people their humanity.”
Full text here
www.thenation.com
JEWISH GRIEF MUST NOT BE USED AS A WEAPON OF WAR “
“It is in our tradition to sit shiva for seven days—to pause to reflect and to mourn. But I cannot sit back while Jewish grief and trauma is weaponized by the Israeli government to destroy Gaza. As I write this, Israel just announced that the 1.1 million Palestinians in northern Gaza—half of them children—will have 24 hours to flee, which the UN has already deemed impossible. The US government is beating the drums of war, rushing to send more weapons to the Israeli military to wreak utter devastation.
We do not need to choose between grieving and acting. As our forebears taught us, we must mourn the dead by fighting like hell for the living.
Make no mistake: The Israeli government is using genocidal rhetoric against Palestinians. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu asserted: What we will do to our enemies will reverberate for generations.” The Israeli minister of defence announced the complete and total closure of Gaza, saying, “No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals, and we act accordingly.” The Israeli president is refusing to distinguish between Palestinian civilians and Hamas fighters.
We as Jews know all too well how dangerous this rhetoric is, the way in which the unthinkable becomes acceptable when we deny people their humanity.”
Full text here
Jewish Grief Must Not Be Used as a Weapon of War
We are in mourning this week—but we cannot sit back while Israel uses our trauma as a reason to destroy Gaza.
www.thenation.com
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,194
A fascinating video looking at a discussion amongst Israelis and Palestinians about the conflict, focusing on different topics which have been referenced in this thread.
Highly recommended, despite being posted four years ago
Inspirational, and a timely reminder that the power in this conflict is the leadership of each side. For me, this is where the blame also lies.
Maybe it is possible for normal everyday people to change the situation. How do we support this happening, human to human, person to person.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,194
Amazing, I wonder what changes could be bought about by voting for a party proposing and political solution?
Is there one?
This is a tactic that I feel is frequently used by those defending the actions of the Israeli government. I actually wonder if it is an ‘unspoken policy’ endorsed by many members of the Jewish faith. This week figures were released by the CST (Community Service Trust, who in their own words ‘protect the Jewish community in the UK) showing a 464% increase in anti semetic incidents in the UK compared to the same week last year. To be honest I do not find this entirely surprising due to the events in Gaza in the last 7 days. But what I would ask is ‘when did the CST publish any figures showing a drop in such incidents?’. There seems to be a constant media campaign being conducted to minimise negative comment of Israeli/Jewish issues, and it seems the establishment falls for it.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,194
As he says, SF offers only a total defence of Israel, often accompanied with accusations of anti semitism. He is totally blind to any wrong doing by Israel and dismisses any suggestion of wrong doing without thought.
My suggestion is to consider if this has any worth in a reasonable and indepth discussion of the subject.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,194
Well said, I think you have highlighted an important distinction between country and government.
It is perfectly normal to fully support a country and its people while being appalled by the actions of its government.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,909
It has certainly has by the far-right supporters of Netanyahu’s government and has been recognised as such - but it is not a tactic that is mutually exclusive to extreme Religious Zionists nor is even being Jewish a pre-requisite for such a tactic - In fact, the most vociferous (to our audiences ) defenders of the actions of the Israeli Government in relation to the Israel-Hamas War have frequently been Western (non-Jewish!) Governments with a political agenda in supporting Israel, swathes of mainstream media (and those influenced by it) or insidiously, those who would have an Islamophobic agenda in supporting Netanyahu’s treatment of the Palestinian people - - and remember too, in all times of War, where the citizens of any Country perceive themselves to be under attack, people of any ethnic group generally become more blindly ‘nationalistic’ and defensive during hostilities and in the immediate aftermath of a major atrocity being committed against them - (a fact failing political leaders are well aware of!) -
I refer you to my above comment - I do think we need to be careful with our generalising or when casting unfounded suspicion on groups of people where it’s not warranted or falling into the trap of homogeneity - homogeneity arises from unfamiliarity which can generate fear and suspicion, the very things that can actually give rise to anti-semitism (or Islamophobia or any other kind of discrimination ) When talking about the ‘weaponising’ of anti-semitism for ulterior motives I think we should be very specific when referring to whoever we think is doing it and be careful to avoid making sweeping statements or planting seeds of suspicion when it’s not warranted. While ‘anti-semitism’ should absolutely never be misappropriated or weaponised for political gain and should be called out when proven that it is - it should never be likewise misappropriated or weaponised by those who would have anti-semitic reasons for ‘cancelling‘ or downplaying anti-semitic behaviour when it does occurs. The implications of a belief in society that increasing levels of anti-semitism are largely down to ‘accusations of anti-semitism’ being used as tools for nefarious purposes is obvious.
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All very fairly put and duly noted. As you are aware, I used the term ‘many’, not ‘all’.
I do feel that many western governments are often very wary of appearing anything but pro Israel due to the lessons of history. Here in Aus the equivalent of the CST are for some reason able to carry firearms when patrolling what are seen to be vulnerable properties and neighbourhoods. My son-in-law had a lively discussion with them when visiting my daughter before they were married as she lived almost next door to the Melbourne Holocaust Museum. As a former soldier, and current reservist, he was a little miffed to be stopped outside the said museum whilst trying to access my daughters apartment one evening.
You never know.You are right, @Steve Foster does remind me of Live By The Sea and he has frequently appeared on this thread after the latter account's ban - could they be connected?
After all, Paul Valley was posting unknown from HB&B's attic a few years ago. Lol.
And SF has other accounts that post, albeit mainly, but not exclusively, on the score predictor thread.