[News] Middle East conflict

[aolstudios]

It is OUR country. If you come here, born here, live here, choose to pop over here and yet identify more strongly with a different country and culture to the point you believe it’s ok to terrorise and strike fear into other communities living peacefully here then you have no place here. You mistakenly assume it was an anti Islamic post, citing your peaceful mate blah blah…but was he celebrating in Kensington? No. I don’t think he was. Therefore, no harm would come to him would it? If he was however one of the many Arabs jeering and dancing, and smashing up Jewish restaurants etc in London then he deserves to be carted off in the meat waggon. Same goes for anyone doing the shameful pro Hamas scenes in London. You abide by our laws, our society, our democractic values. Which doesn’t extend to going about attacking, intimidating, mocking and goading other communities in the wake of a monumental tragedy like it’s some World Cup win. Because if you do, you’re one sick bastard. Not that I’m saying you are, because you surely wouldn’t. But there are people doing so tonight in our country. And they deserve every right minded persons contempt as well as being dealt with by the law.

This

 

[Live by the sea]

As soon as anyone in the slightest stands up for the people of Palestine or dares to criticise the Israeli government the “Anti Semitism” card is pulled.

That’s not right or fair . Islamophobia is often cited on the other side as well.

There is a well discussed link between unreasonable criticism of Israel and anti semitism . Perhaps read David Baddiels book ‘ Jews don’t count ‘ it goes into the details very eloquently.

The standing up for the Palestinians as if they were some tiny minority with no support is also not really true.

The Palestinians have huge support over the majority of the Arab and Muslim world with millions supporting them including in that various Islamist militant groups . Iran and Syria among the two biggest ‘ supporters’ or rather sponsors of terrorist groups .

Those groups want to use the Palestinians cause to further their own violent ideology . They don’t actually care about their well being , if they did they would help in more humanitarian ways like money for new hospitals etc rather than weapons .

It’s amazing how some ordinary people in this country don’t appear to grasp this. It can’t be the excuse of ignorance as this is widely known and has been referenced often .

God forbid if the time ever came and there was a world war , all the European Palestinian supporters would I’m betting be changing sides quicker than Lamptey runs up the wing ,

 

[Westdene Seagull]

That’s not right or fair . Islamophobia is often cited on the other side as well.

There is a well discussed link between unreasonable criticism of Israel and anti semitism . Perhaps read David Baddiels book ‘ Jews don’t count ‘ it goes into the details very eloquently.

The standing up for the Palestinians as if they were some tiny minority with no support is also not really true.

The Palestinians have huge support over the majority of the Arab and Muslim world with millions supporting them including in that various Islamist militant groups . Iran and Syria among the two biggest ‘ supporters’ or rather sponsors of terrorist groups .

Those groups want to use the Palestinians cause to further their own violent ideology . They don’t actually care about their well being , if they did they would help in more humanitarian ways like money for new hospitals etc rather than weapons .

It’s amazing how some ordinary people in this country don’t appear to grasp this. It can’t be the excuse of ignorance as this is widely known and has been referenced often .

God forbid if the time ever came and there was a world war , all the European Palestinian supporters would I’m betting be changing sides quicker than Lamptey runs up the wing ,

And the Israeli government do ?

And for balance, I'd suggest the Israeli government also don't care about the wellbeing of their own peace loving citizens. Instead they are pandering to the far right zealots and illegal settlers.

 

[nicko31]

So is Israel going to go for a full blown ground invasion. They did this in 2014, they killed 2k + in Gaza, it calmed things down for a bit and surprise, surprise it just created a new generation for Hamas to recruit and here we are again

Would things be any different if they do it all over again today? A lot on the Israeli right want Gaza levelled. Seems few lessons have been learnt

 

[nicko31]

And the Israeli government do ? View attachment 167873

And for balance, I'd suggest the Israeli government also don't care about the wellbeing of their own peace loving citizens. Instead they are pandering to the far right zealots and illegal settlers.

Netanyahu has been on skid row up to his neck in corruption, unable to form a majority and forced to couple up with extremists resorting to more and more authoritian government.

He'll see this tragedy as his get out of jail card

 

[Zeberdi]

Dehumanisation is often a precursor to atrocities.

Not just a precursor but a central policy in far right strategies aimed at perpetuating them

Get this straight, Western media: Palestinians aren’t sub-human

Dehumanisation of Palestinians is as central to Israel’s war strategy as the deadly missiles it wields.

www.aljazeera.com

This kind of rhetoric adds nothing to the discussion.

And does nothing to create a climate in which a peace agreement could even be considered possible.

Just as ‘dehumanising is often a precursor to atrocities’, A Truth and Reconciliation Commission (rather like the one established by the South African Government in 1995) maybe be the requisite precursor to a lasting peace.

There can be no reconciliation without forgiveness and that won’t happen until both Israel and Hamas have been held accountable for years of human rights violations, war crimes and disregard for International Law.

 

[BadFish]

That’s not right or fair . Islamophobia is often cited on the other side as well.

There is a well discussed link between unreasonable criticism of Israel and anti semitism . Perhaps read David Baddiels book ‘ Jews don’t count ‘ it goes into the details very eloquently.

The standing up for the Palestinians as if they were some tiny minority with no support is also not really true.

The Palestinians have huge support over the majority of the Arab and Muslim world with millions supporting them including in that various Islamist militant groups . Iran and Syria among the two biggest ‘ supporters’ or rather sponsors of terrorist groups .

Those groups want to use the Palestinians cause to further their own violent ideology . They don’t actually care about their well being , if they did they would help in more humanitarian ways like money for new hospitals etc rather than weapons .

It’s amazing how some ordinary people in this country don’t appear to grasp this. It can’t be the excuse of ignorance as this is widely known and has been referenced often .

God forbid if the time ever came and there was a world war , all the European Palestinian supporters would I’m betting be changing sides quicker than Lamptey runs up the wing ,

'sides' 'support'

My guess is that the vast majority of , as you call them 'Palestinian Supporters' would struggle to pick a 'side' between Hamas and The far right Israeli government.

My guess is that most would choose those innocent people who are caught in the middle of this shit fight just wishing to live their lives.

Palestinian or Israeli, Jew or Muslim . . . Makes no odds to most.

 

[AstroSloth]

So you’ve not seen the anti semantic chants, videos, graffiti, and damage in our capital? But then left wing liberal anti semites tend to turn a blind eye to that sort of thing eh Jeremy?

You're so educated on the subject you say anti semantic for some reason.

Being against the apartheid state of Israel isn't anti Semitic.

However what you have said about the Palestinians is incredibly racist. Well done, classic right wing behaviour.

 

[Bakero]

'sides' 'support'

My guess is that the vast majority of , as you call them 'Palestinian Supporters' would struggle to pick a 'side' between Hamas and The far right Israeli government.

My guess is that most would choose those innocent people who are caught in the middle of this shit fight just wishing to live their lives.

Palestinian or Israeli, Jew or Muslim . . . Makes no odds to most.

This.

It seems to be that a majority of posters have a fairly balanced view, understanding the historical context and events leading up to the present situation and, thus, criticising Hamas as well as the Israeli government while lamenting the deaths on both sides.

Meanwhile, there are others who take a more Manichean view: Israel good, Palestine bad. I've yet to see one of these more one-eyed posters show a scintilla of empathy for the plight of ordinary Palestinians nor condemn any of the violent rhetoric expressed on this thread or elsewhere.

 

[AstroSloth]

Those who have no place in modern society. Imagine the things we could have done without brutes like the Arabs and Slavs. Imagine the safety we would enjoy.
The fair outcome is that the strong win and the weak lose. Always been that way, will always be that way. It is nature. You can look at the IQ of the average Jewish man and compare it to others. Or look at our achievements in finance, media, art and all other important areas. No goy society would survive a winter without our direction. Much less so a Muslim, African or Slavic society. They are only a burden now and we need to move forward.
I dont care how it is solved. Netanyuhu makes it happen now or Itamar Ben-Gvir will do it eventually. Just go in and those who surrender can be sent to Syria or somehing, everyone else just shoot them on sight. People only pretend to care about Arabs because theres social status in it. No one wants to live near them or their culture. You never know with Iran and so we spared the Palestinians but with Iran gone there is nothing to save them and the world will finally move forward to a better place.

This is sounding an awful lot like something a certain Austrian painter was saying in the 1930s.

Something about a superior race, other races being a burden and should not exist, comparing IQs.

What a disgraceful comment.

 

[Taybha]

What a absolute shit show,if there's a god he must seriously be thinking nah I've had enough of the human race now,I think I'll replace them with another butterfly species or a webbed foot Mullet,as a species no matter how intelligent we get we still manage to resort to being a couple of notches below neanderthals when push comes to shove.

 

[Bakero]

They aren't people like us.

They are cult like devotees to the teachings of a vile warlord.

About 20% of the province I live in is Muslim. In my neighbourhood I wouldn't be surprised if the figure was even higher than that, with significant numbers of Moroccans and smaller Senegalese, Algerian and Pakistani communities. My barber is Muslim. The local shopkeepers are muslim. My next door neighbours are Muslim. Some of the lads I play football with are Muslim. A lot of the kids I see walking to school are Muslim. They are people like us.

 

[beorhthelm]

way Netanyahu is talking he wants to escalate from medieval to biblical.

 

[WATFORD zero]

About 20% of the province I live in is Muslim. In my neighbourhood I wouldn't be surprised if the figure was even higher than that, with significant numbers of Moroccans and smaller Senegalese, Algerian and Pakistani communities. My barber is Muslim. The local shopkeepers are muslim. My next door neighbours are Muslim. Some of the lads I play football with are Muslim. A lot of the kids I see walking to school are Muslim. They are people like us.

They are certainly people like us but thankfully, not even close to people like @Tyrone Biggums. I really wonder what goes on in people's minds to be so completely uneducated and bigoted. It must be a conscious decision to actually avoid reading or learning any facts about the subjects they are going to get so vitriolic about

 

[Live by the sea]

About 20% of the province I live in is Muslim. In my neighbourhood I wouldn't be surprised if the figure was even higher than that, with significant numbers of Moroccans and smaller Senegalese, Algerian and Pakistani communities. My barber is Muslim. The local shopkeepers are muslim. My next door neighbours are Muslim. Some of the lads I play football with are Muslim. A lot of the kids I see walking to school are Muslim. They are people like us.

Out of interest have you asked any of your neighbours what they think about people that are gay ? What they think about people that might mock Mohammed ? Be interesting to hear there answers .

Doing the same things as you might do on a regular basis Is not necessarily an indication of whether they are as you put it ‘ People like us ‘

What peoples views on Gay people , free speech , etc is a truer indicator of ‘ People like us ‘. Ie people that share common liberal tolerant values.

 

[portslade seagull]

I feel sorry for all the innocent women, children grandmother's and grandfather's of both sides who have already lost their lives and soon will because of a terrorist organisation that seems incapable of negotiation.
They now hide amongst the innocent civilian population in Gaza which will result in more avoidable deaths. The only hope is Israel show some leniency

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I feel sorry for all the innocent women, children grandmother's and grandfather's of both sides who have already lost their lives and soon will because of a terrorist organisation that seems incapable of negotiation.
They now hide amongst the innocent civilian population in Gaza which will result in more avoidable deaths. The only hope is Israel show some leniency

My friend, that's not a hope any of us can cling to i'm afraid

 

[BadFish]

Out of interest have you asked any of your neighbours what they think about people that are gay ? What they think about people that might mock Mohammed ? Be interesting to hear there answers .

Doing the same things as you might do on a regular basis Is not necessarily an indication of whether they are as you put it ‘ People like us ‘

What peoples views on Gay people , free speech , etc is a truer indicator of ‘ People like us ‘. Ie people that share common liberal tolerant values.

Your views on Muslims are abhorrent, however, the thing is that despite people having horrendous views they are still people. The 'like us' is entirely subjective in the sentence. You are like us in many ways, for example supporting Brighton and not 'like us' in other ways, e.g. the Islamophobia.

Of course the small step of taking away the 'like us' leads to the dark dark-place of dehumanizing people. And people like us really don't want that.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

This bombardment that's happening, the possible ground invasion, the deaths from taking away water, electricity etc ..... now there's not going to be an official death toll of innocent non combatants, even an accurate assessment will take a while.

But surely there is every likelihood, that the number of innocents killed will far exceed the number which Hamas brutally murdered last weekend.

Surely the messaging from world leaders is wrong now. Israel has absolutely every right to go for Hamas soldiers and leaders. But carpet bombing Gaza? Surely the world needs to urge restraint

 

[sparkie]

Israel has defeated the Hamas terrorists who entered Israel it seems. And has had a modicum of revenge on Gaza with airstrikes.

Now is the time for cool heads and stepping back from the brink.