[News] Middle East conflict

[Insel affe]

Indeed. They are brilliant. Which makes it even more puzzling that they apparently didn't have even the slightest idea that the 7/10 attack was in the offing. (Despite months / years of planning)

oh they did and let it ride, as a pretence to flatten, displace and indiscriminately kill 43000 in revenge.

The US and several other agencies warned them, they knew.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I disagree.

I think it matters very much what the international community thinks about geo-political events and conflicts around the world and that includes the electorate of that international community - ie us.

One cannot insulate oneself from moral culpability or even vested interest just because one might not be the one pulling the trigger or hiding in bomb shelters.

We live in a complex, multi-faceted geo-political reality where a conflict in one part of the world has a myriad of interconnecting self interests and can be significant on a global level.

‘When a butterfly flaps it’s wings in the Amazon rain forest, it can change the weather half a world away’.

- chaos theory.

You are arguing from the specific (what I wrote) to the general. Of course it is a good thing that people understand global events. That is not what I was addressing (and I had in fact made some attempt to do exactly what you recommend - contextualize the events and consider comments made about them).

What I wrote was this:

"As with the rest of the Israel vs the Muslim world conflict there is nothing good about any of it, but that still doesn't mean it is all the same, every event identical. Some may argue that indifference to civilian causalities is the same as the deliberate targeting of civilians. I'm not sure that's particularly helpful. Anyway, even what we think about it matters not a jot."

I was explaining what I thought about the discussion about whether the attack on the pagers was equivalent to 9/11. My point was that they are not the same. I added that what we think about it (i.e., whether we think they are the same or not the same) matters not a jot.

Hopefully I have now explained properly what I meant.

 

[Eric the meek]

Indeed. They are brilliant. Which makes it even more puzzling that they apparently didn't have even the slightest idea that the 7/10 attack was in the offing. (Despite months / years of planning)

Are you saying what I think you're saying?

(If you are, then it would make sense. Let it happen, wake the sleeping giant up and change the course of history in Israel's favour).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

oh they did and let it ride, as a pretence to flatten, displace and indiscriminately kill 43000 in revenge.

I really don't think that Mossad or Bibi deliberately allowed hundreds of Israelis to be killed and 100 to be taken hostage (with some allegedly abused and many certainly murdered) simply to justify a bit of genocide.

 

[rippleman]

BBC now reporting two children killed in the pager attack which some on here view as a cause for celebration.

An eight-year-old girl and an 11-year-old boy.

Israel says it killed senior Hezbollah figures in strike on Beirut

Lebanon's health ministry says 14 people were killed and dozens injured in the strike, as cross-border exchanges escalate.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[RandyWanger]

I need to go and read up on this. Did Mussad play the long game, infultrate the supply chain and have literally thousands of these bombs out there and potentially coud do it again?
Or was it an exploit that overloaded the battery on these specific devices.
Rabbit hole incoming.

 

[Chicken Run]

BBC now reporting two children killed in the pager attack which some on here view as a cause for celebration.

An eight-year-old girl and an 11-year-old boy.

Israel says it killed senior Hezbollah figures in strike on Beirut

Lebanon's health ministry says 14 people were killed and dozens injured in the strike, as cross-border exchanges escalate.

www.bbc.co.uk

Wow people celebrating the death of innocent children, i hope the people who posted these celebrations have been banned, can you link me to these disgusting posts please?

 

[Insel affe]

I really don't think that Mossad or Bibi deliberately allowed hundreds of Israelis to be killed and 100 to be taken hostage (with some allegedly abused and many certainly murdered) simply to justify a bit of genocide.

As much as I respect your views and superior intelligence.
But I suggest that they either had orders from above, or were misinformed/manipulated from those in power.
Ultimately it was deemed from above to let it ride....

There is no other reasonable explanation for 43000 dead and counting, plus the displacement of thousands, new settlements springing up.
This is not an appropriate response.

It seems pre determined.

What do I know, I am simple dude, I am extremely uncomfortable with it all.

 

[Seagull58]

Interesting Mossad is able to carry out such an inherently cunning and brilliant plan which would have involved a lot of intricate planning, detail and precision execution.

Especially given that the only way the Israeli government can apparently rescue a few dozen hostages in Gaza is by bombing it out of existence and killing everyone who lives there.

That's not correct though. I'm sure you recall the recent operation where they infiltrated the Hamas tunnel network and got very close to rescuing 6 Israeli hostages who were then brutally murdered by Hamas operatives to prevent them being rescued alive.

 

[Seagull58]

Very clever. Seems rather indiscriminate as the owner could be anywhere when it’s activated.

It's not at all indiscriminate. It precisely targeted the Hezbollah operatives that use pagers distributed by their leadership. Nobody else uses those pagers.

 

[Seagull58]

No. It's terrorism

It's not.

 

[Zeberdi]

You are arguing from the specific (what I wrote) to the general. Of course it is a good thing that people understand global events. That is not what I was addressing (and I had in fact made some attempt to do exactly what you recommend - contextualize the events and consider comments made about them).

What I wrote was this:

"As with the rest of the Israel vs the Muslim world conflict there is nothing good about any of it, but that still doesn't mean it is all the same, every event identical. Some may argue that indifference to civilian causalities is the same as the deliberate targeting of civilians. I'm not sure that's particularly helpful. Anyway, even what we think about it matters not a jot."

I was explaining what I thought about the discussion about whether the attack on the pagers was equivalent to 9/11. My point was that they are not the same. I added that what we think about it (i.e., whether we think they are the same or not the same) matters not a jot.

Hopefully I have now explained properly what I meant.

Fair enough but you have frequently argued that our opinions in the UK don’t matter when it comes to what is happening in the ME or indeed the US election so assumed it was more of the same.

Apologies if you think I have misinterpreted a point you made.

I think it still matters imo that we acknowledge that a State entity, a signatory of the Geneva convention should be held to at least as high standards if not higher than we expect of a non-State terrorist organisation when it comes to disregarding civilian casualties regardless of whether they are deliberately targeting them or not.

ps we on on the same wavelength most of the time it’s ok to disagree sometimes - don’t take it personally

 

[Seagull58]

FFS. Yet more IDF terror tactics.

It was a precisely targeted attack on the Hezbolla organisational structure, designed to disrupt and immobilise it.

 

[Seagull58]

Any normal person with empathy, no matter which side they sit on, should not be celebrating civilian deaths. If this were a targeted attack, this would be brilliant. But this isn't. I would have said nothing if people weren't celebrating the killing of a child.

But it was a targetted attack. It precisely targeted the 3000 or so pagers used exclusively by Hezbollah to run their organisation.

 

[beorhthelm]

I really don't think that Mossad or Bibi deliberately allowed hundreds of Israelis to be killed and 100 to be taken hostage (with some allegedly abused and many certainly murdered) simply to justify a bit of genocide.

would have liked to think so, however the way they have prosecuted their war since makes one suspicious. they have no intent to resolve the crisis other than through subjugation of Gaza, and seem to have started on West Bank too.

 

[pocketseagull]

But it was a targetted attack. It precisely targeted the 3000 or so pagers used exclusively by Hezbollah to run their organisation.

Do you think it would be acceptable for IDF to be targeted the same way with 1000s of civilians injured and children killed in Tel Aviv?

 

[Insel affe]

It's not at all indiscriminate. It precisely targeted the Hamas operatives that use pagers distributed by their leadership. Nobody else uses those pagers.

Amazing, why are two children dead then ?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Nice!
I’ve celebrated the death and de balling of terrorists in the most targeted mass attack possible. We have had 8000 rockets fired at us this year by these scum. However Israel reacts certain people have a problem with it, I wonder why?

Just to clarify, please identify ’us’. Are you Israeli, or Jewish, or both?

 

[Insel affe]

It's not.

I was told by my Ol'gran

"one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist"

 

[GingerBeerMan]

The one bit of solace I get from this thread is that apart from the two nutters who apparently are fine with a bit of light genocide, the overwhelming opinion of sensible Brits seems to be disgust at the Israeli regime for the thousands of deaths they are causing.