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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
armchairclubber
Well-known member
OK then, the fact your post and giving of ban has been liked by two that I consider have been consistently trolling throughout the thread, including unfounded and insulting accusations and/or continuous mocking laughter over a desperate situation and discussion I'd say is quite telling.
I'm trying to understand a stance. An apparent unawareness of prayer with no expression of faith (at least in aols case unless I missed it) and yet what appears to me the viewpoint of an entitlement for Israel to continue with its Genocide, flattening and land grab of Palestine.
This isn't aimed at yourself. I'm trying to understand and differentiate views on here that include those of a Jewish faith and those that are of a Zionist ideology without faith. Two often separate perspectives though they could (or can) be conflated or confused. I can't understand why anyone could or should feel entitled to the land (Palestine, Gaza) that is neither of faith nor of heritage from either side, though some do.
This is not alone in being an ideology I find extremely dangerous, though it also finds harbour within our own government and opposition. Take Luke Akehurst being given opportunity for a safe seat in Durham as an example. A Zionist who is not Jewish. Troublesome in my opinion.
The whole situation ever increases in depravity, suffering and death as well as escalation to other nations (which although presently arming Israel from a distance could yet bring the UK into even greater conflict) so I absolutely stand by my comment that "there is no break" here (for which I was initially banned). Not for any of us, but especially not for those taken hostage and all those trying to survive in Gaza and those now in detention centres.
If having an alternative point of view gets me a permanent ban then I think that's a pretty poor reflection on the site.
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An alternative point of view, such as the post I’m replying to, doesn’t attract any infraction, let alone a permanent ban. Trolling, such as the posts I issued temporary bans for, will initially result in irritation, then temporary bans, culminating in a permanent ban.
It’s really not hard.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,228
I hope you are not conflating my Jewish but non-faith identity with Zionism? I do not share the Jewish faith as I have said many times on this thread but I am Jewish.
45% of Jews in Israel are secular (no faith) and 30% or so are not Religious Zionists but moderate/traditional.
Contemporary Religious Zionists are judaistic ( faith based) - For Religious Zionists, the concept of the land of Israel being “promised by God” to the Jewish people is core to their beliefs. However, and this is important from an ideological perspective and in terms of understanding why people might accuse others of antisemitism when they start criticising the Jewish faith or Israel ( not me btw!) - Religious Zionism accounts for only around 12% of Jews in Israel.
Significantly that 12% includes the far right parties that are keeping Netanyahu’s coalition government from collapsing. He is an unpopular and centralising politician that has been taking Israel more and more to the right in recent decades because of his stance on Iran and unwillingness for a two state solution.
Polarising the debate in the way some have been doing and making it about Jews and faith or Israel in general, isn’t really helping one’s case with people like Aolstudios and others on NSC who can only see the broader anti-Israel theme in these anti-war arguments and for them ( and for me at times ) what is dangerously close to an anti Jewish sentiment.
I think it far ‘safer’ to highlight the very strong humanitarian justifications for speaking out against the Israel government’s conduct in the war against Hamas rather than trying to find rationales against the war by resorting to matters of ‘faith’ and being Jewish, especially when it’s based on an erroneous understanding of Religious Zionism, how little prevalence it has and what are the fascist roots In Netanyahu’s own personal ideology.
But remember being truly humanitarian is an apolitical philosophy and applies to all people regardless of their political or religious affiliations.
armchairclubber
Well-known member
No I certainly (and of course) am not. I'm sure you have made that clear and I feel your point further demonstrates that I was aiming to make.
I do understand there are various lines of belief, (or non belief) principles and connotations of Judaism and Jewish faith (or non faith) and / or heritage & identity and / or Zionist beliefs (not limited to those I mentioned previously) and this thread has given opportunity for those to be expressed or discussed if desired.
The example I have given in not understanding its grounds and line of belief is that of Luke Akehurst (who is being found a safe seat within the Labour Party)
I would welcome further explanation of his Zionist ideology and beliefs, with him having no Jewish faith or heritage or practising Judaism, as this doesn't make sense or sit well with me, particularly as he considers himself a Zionist Shitlord (and a well connected one at that) and would no doubt be involved in the "rebuilding" of Gaza. (So as I understand, about as far away from your own given identity as could be)
I'm not asking yourself or anyone on here to explain his position of course, though it is open.
Having said this, thanks for your reply, views and info. It helps very much when background and info is given to support understanding both ways and you often accommodate.
Separately and without conflation, I fully agree there is more than enough strong humanitarian justification alone to call for an immediate ceasefire and end to this war, be it from anyone holding any faith or not, along with speaking against any unjust conduct found, be it on any or either side of conflict.
I think that should go without saying. A start being an immediate end to licences being given by the UK for any arms sales to Israel, which has been called for by some for several months (including and supported, unless I'm mistaken, by both yourself and I)
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,228
Full blown famine in Gaza now setting in as a direct result of not enough aid getting into Gaza or being distributed to those most in need.
www.gov.uk
This news report is just heartbreaking - warning very distressing images of babies starving
news.sky.com
The war needs to end NOW.
Not enough aid is getting into Gaza: UK statement at the UN Security Council
Statement by UK Permanent Representative to the UN Ambassador Barbara Woodward at the UN Security Council briefing by Sigrid Kaag, UN Senior Humanitarian and Reconstruction Coordinator for Gaza.
This news report is just heartbreaking - warning very distressing images of babies starving
Gaza: Starving children dying as humanitarian aid agencies struggle to enter
The UN has said it is too dangerous to distribute aid and the organisation is close to suspending its operations. In northern Gaza, children queue with their pans, or plastic buckets, patiently waiting for the daily handout of food.
The war needs to end NOW.
If anyone is not sure who Luke Akehurst is, the candidate @armchairclubber refers to above, here's the Guardian's recent profile of him https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ivist-turned-controversial-election-candidate
armchairclubber
Well-known member
armchairclubber
Well-known member
A distressing but well documented & powerful film on the Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza including accounts of 6 year old Hind Rajabs final moments.
'The Night Won't End'
www.aljazeera.com
'The Night Won't End'
‘The Night Won’t End’: Biden’s War on Gaza
Fault Lines investigates killings of civilians by the Israeli military in Gaza and the United States’s role in the war.
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Gaza toll could exceed 186,000, Lancet study says
The study finds factors like diseases will lead to many more indirect deaths in the long run even if the war stops now.
armchairclubber
Well-known member
armchairclubber
Well-known member
Imagine being born into this. The world should not look away.
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Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,689
Hamas brought this shitstorm down upon the heads of the people it claims to represent. They knew exactly how heavy-handed the Israeli response would be. They were counting on it. Totally vile
While I wouldn't absolve Hamas of responsibility, it is Israel that needs to be held to account for this.
A response was justified but their actions over the past 9 months have been disgusting.
Forget 9 months, Israel's actions over decades have been disgusting and our government is complicit.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,689
I've been lucky enough to visit Israel a couple of times. From my limited observations, they clearly believe in the vengeful God, not the nice God. But then Hamas already knew that
armchairclubber
Well-known member
Personally, I don't think those who should one day be held accountable for their evil and sadistic actions (of which there is a great deal of evidence) have any idea, whichever 'side' they may be on.
aolstudios
Well-known member
Well, exactly