You know that Israeli doesn't = Jewish yes ? Plenty of Christians and Muslims live in Israel. Time to remove that chip from your shoulder.
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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,223
Read my earlier posts on this thread (which have mainly been in response to yours!)
Firstly, I have repeatedly supported Israel in condemning the acts of terror by Hamas, the incursion by Hamas into Israel, the killing of Israeli people - for you to suggest otherwise is deeply offensive and attempting to deny and cancel out my Jewish identity on an internet forum is in itself anti-semitic
What is happening in Israel and Gaza - its heinous and a tragic culmination of years of simmering conflict.
No, although I am indeed a non-practicing Jewish person (but dont practice Judaism ), I do not have Zionist views but it is not anti-semitic not to be a Zionist. I am not ‘hostile’ to the State of Israel but to the policy of annexation by settlement expansion and the denial of basic human rights to the Palestinian people that have resulted in oppression and hardship in the occupied territories of Gaza especially.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,673
US is going to have to step in now. Israel just raised the stakes by ordering the complete siege of Gaza. And Israel has zero faith in the UN
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,945
If you are planning to go through the things @Live by the sea doesn't understand about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I hope you are sitting comfortably with plenty of refreshments
A tip - you're starting point is Israel Good/Palestine Evil. Good Luck
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Live by the sea
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2016
- 4,718
You are the one with a chip on your shoulder about Israel - read back through your posts - dozens of them all critical , many factually incorrect .
You hate Israel, I get it , I don’tknow why - maybe you’ve had bad experience with an Israeli, who knows .
Clearly your dislike of the country goes well beyond the normal mindset of decent fair minded people that want to see a peaceful and long lasting solution for both sides .
Is @Live by the sea another account for @Steve Foster? Annoyingly right wing and full of "Israel can do no wrong" bollocks. I can't be arsed to engage with the tiresome cretin.
Edit: and if you don't like being referred to as such, stop CRYING every time someone pulls you up and disagrees with your daft nonsense.
Edit: and if you don't like being referred to as such, stop CRYING every time someone pulls you up and disagrees with your daft nonsense.
Live by the sea
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2016
- 4,718
Insulting is your best way forward ?
I only have one account , I don’t know anything about the other account other than what I’ve read on here and no I’m not right wing but I will call out people that I believe are both unfair and not reasonable or plain nasty .
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,945
I did wonder myself, although I've never understood why people feel the need to have multiple accounts to pretend to be lots of people and can't be honest to start with. It immediately makes me wonder what they are trying to achieve other than embarrassing themselves
I can't be sure but seeing as @Live by the sea has four confirmed accounts and @Steve Foster has at least three, that must increase the chances somewhat. And that's ignoring the possibility it could simple be another of @Wokeworrier /JCFG's five accounts
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- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,223
Every time you refer to ‘The Palestinians‘ as the perpetrators of the armed conflict and terrorism against Isreal - even the news sources at least the mainstream ones have been very careful to refer to the current War as a conflict between Israel and Hamas NOT Israel and the Palestinians
Thanks (I think
)Although I’m not sure you really understand what my views are otherwise I think you wouldn’t be offended - it’s because I have ‘Western Liberal Values’ (and a background in law ) that I think the Palestinian people have a right to self-determination and the right to be free from oppression and illegal occupation of their land and the basic right to healthcare, food, clean water and education etc - my Westernised education and upbringing informs that opinion - they are rights as enshrined in Thomas Paine’s Rights of Man, the UN Declaration on Human Rights, The European Human Rights Act etc - fundamental human rights are only fundamental if they are universal. It’s not anti-Israel or anti-semitic to say that or believe it unless one is saying it to someone with extremist views on either side.
It goes without saying, the people of Israel should (and are) afforded the same rights,
Not really. You're basically crying because people are calling out your drivel, including one non-practicing Jew who appears to dare to disagree with you by acknowledging that Israel are part responsible for this conflict and indeed this incident.
You're embarrassing.
Did you know that Palestine previously accepted Israel's right to peace, which was the first PLO obligation under the Oslo Accord in 1993?
Live by the sea
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2016
- 4,718
I don’t disagree with any of that and I support that as I believe the vast majority of Israelis do .Every time you refer to ‘The Palestinians‘ as the perpetrators of the armed conflict and terrorism against Isreal - even the news sources at least the mainstream ones have been very careful to refer to the current War as a conflict between Israel and Hamas NOT Israel and the Palestinians
Thanks (I think
Although I’m not sure you really understand what my views are otherwise I think you wouldn’t be offended - it’s because I have ‘Western Liberal Values’ (and a background in law ) that I think the Palestinian people have a right to self-determination and the right to be free from oppression and illegal occupation of their land and the basic right to healthcare, food, clean water and education etc - my Westernised education and upbringing informs that opinion - they are rights as enshrined in Thomas Paine’s Rights of Man, the UN Declaration on Human Rights, The European Human Rights Act etc - fundamental human rights are only fundamental if they are universal. It’s not anti-Israel or anti-semitic to say that or believe it unless one is saying it to someone with extremist views on either side.
It goes without saying, the people of Israel should (and are) afforded the same rights,
What I do take issue with , is that Hamas is simply a resistance group ( similar to in the 2nd war world with the French and other resistance groups ) the inference being that the Israelis are not much better than the Nazis.
This is clearly untrue and accepted by all the main western countries . Israel does not want to be permanently in this position where it’s controlling the lives of over 2 million people along with various restrictions.
This is both very expensive to maintain and more importantly breeds deep resentment, I absolutely understand that .
However at the moment there aren’t many options because of Hamas which isn’t simply a resistance group but is a hardline Islamist Terror group and has been prescribed as such by most western govts .
There was an attempt back in 2005 for Israel to loosen control over the Palestinian areas it controls and what happened next …. Suicide bombing and other attacks increased on Israel so they quickly had to go back to full scale control .
A number of people on this thread seem to equate this terrible and unwanted situation as comparable to a European country having its rights and freedom of movement taken away.
It’s not comparable because the Palestinians are not represented by a normal democratic government with the usual human rights and code of conduct.
Hamas can effectively behave however it likes and has never hidden its desire to destroy Israel .
How can anyone fair minded and reasonable truly expect Israel to come to an agreement with an enemy that wants to destroy it .
I’m Not talking about all the Palestinian people but the current government in charge and all the Palestinians that do support the terrorist grouping and their aims .
It’s very easy for people to say , Israel should concede this and that and hand control over etc but what would happen after that !
I don’t have the answers but it’s not as simple as withdraw from the occupied territories.
Still waiting for the apology for calling me anti-sematic - calling out the Israeli government for it's many wrongs ISN'T anti-sematic. I don't hate the Israeli people ( although they do hold some responsibility for voting in governments that have taken many oppressive actions ), I detest that Israel treats Palestinians as second class citizens and doesn't afford them the same rights and privileges of Israeli citizens. And that doesn't even touch stolen land and using banned weapons on civilians.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,945
I can't be sure but seeing as @Live by the sea has four confirmed accounts and @Steve Foster has at least three, that must increase the chances somewhat. And that's ignoring the possibility it could simple be another of @Wokeworrier /JCFG's five accounts
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Live by the sea
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2016
- 4,718
This is meant to be mainly a football notice board !
Dont be obtuse - Posting in in big bold letters to support your own one-sided view of the issues was the problem not the content
I honestly don’t know what to say to that outrageous accusation and as a Jewish person with relatives living in Israel, deeply disturbed that you would think that.
Again, stop conflating being a Palestinian with being a terrorist and you repeatedly doing so to inflame your NCS/online ‘audience’ is islamophobic and dog whistling but also very dangerous in these really very very difficult times - if you think racial tensions are not on knife edge in the UK and around the world because of this conflict, you are wrong and your language and attitude is adding to it.
Not all those that support Brighton & Hove Albion and therefore follow (but maybe don’t contribute) to NSC are white, Christian/secular, men - it would serve us well to remember that when having this debate or any other on issues surrounding religion/cultural practices.
Calling me a terrorist sympathiser couldnt be more from the truth
@Zeberdi - I think when you copy and paste from BBC Breaking it renders the text how LBTS and Carlzeiss posted. They are posting about deaths of UK or US citizens. It's very relevant to the news angle of this story, which is how the thread started. I'm minded to let the posts stand. I don't see what you see. That said.....
@Live by the sea I've just wasted a nice chunk of a sunny afternoon wading through reports of posts, almost all of the reported ones are by you. At the least you are unintentionally offending people. At worst you are trolling. Please think about what you're posting because you're one wrong move from being removed from this thread permanently and NSC for a short time and, given that you flounced on Sunday and have already come back, I guess that's not what you want.
nice sentionalisation of your post - no need to shout
Wasn't meant to be "nice" .
Not sure what you mean here. Can you explain a bit more?
Live by the sea
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2016
- 4,718
Ok - I’ll be mindful
I just wanted to ask some questions about this comment which could focus on the counter-argument here:
1. Are Israelis represented by a "normal, democratic government with the usual human rights and code of conduct"?
2. Is Israel effectively behaving however it likes and has never hidden its intention to destroy, or significantly weaken, Palestine?
3. What is the solution, it sounds like you don't have one, but is there any ideas/suggestions?