[News] Middle East conflict

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Now you’re getting it - what the UK is suggesting isn’t a ‘ceasefire’ but a one-sided situation “where hostages are released, more aid can get in and Hamas stops firing rockets into Israel.”

Another genius plan from "Call me" Dave

For what its worth, I said at the start Israel needed to have been the 'bigger man' and not retaliated, but I can see why they decided on plan B (or was it A?).

And so, here we are.

Anyway, it matters about as much to the situation what Dave suggests as it does what he suggests we do to overcome Palace on Thursday.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Not quite the type of ‘immediate ceasefire’ the majority of the UN have been calling for - rather ‘calling for’ a long-term ‘ceasefire’ as part of a ‘sustainable solution’ - the UK is just saying it supports a ceasefire if we find a peaceful solution to the Palestinian issue and Hamas stops attacking Israel: As the foreign Secretary said at the UN Assembly on Friday

”We have been clear that Israel must be targeted and precise in its efforts to address the threat posed by Hamas, and must minimise civilian casualties and protect civilian infrastructure in line with international humanitarian law. My Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary have repeatedly delivered this message to Israel, and will continue to do so…we support calls for a sustainable ceasefire, where hostages are released, more aid can get in and Hamas stops firing rockets into Israel.”

Politik-speak.

In the Sunday times today, David Cameron writes

"We do not believe that calling right now for a general and immediate ceasefire, hoping it somehow becomes permanent, is the way forward… Would Hamas stop firing rockets? Would it release the hostages? Would its murderous ideology change? An unsustainable ceasefire, quickly collapsing into further violence, would only make it harder to build the confidence needed for peace."

Politik-speak and prevarication…but reaffirming clear support for Israel to continue it’s war campaign against Hamas and not stopping until Hamas is destroyed - the UK, along with the US, committed to an open-ended and very possibly unachievable objective.

It shows how hopelessly useless the US, and we, are in terms of global clout. Flat track bullies willing to pile into paces like Nicaragua (albeit this was decades ago) and later Iraq (then f*** it all up, leave without anything other that a trophy killing (Saddam) and a mess, ripe for the next wave of lunatics to establish themselves - hello ISIS!).

Nothing learned from how the Brits took over India, ran it for centuries, then f***ed off leaving a bit of a mess (but nothing like Iraq). Maybe too much learned from Vietnam, where they f***ed off and left it to the communists, who now seem not to have been any threat to the west at all. The lesson learned being that today "we can pontificate, sell arms, and occasionally twat a tiny irrelevant state somewhere in central America, but otherwise....oh look over there, a lovely shiny thing".

 

[Bakero]

Now you’re getting it - what the UK is suggesting isn’t a ‘ceasefire’ but a one-sided situation “where hostages are released, more aid can get in and Hamas stops firing rockets into Israel.”

Anything less than that, the UK says would be ‘unsustainable‘ because Hamas would regroup and their ideology would remain

“We do not believe that calling right now for a general and immediate ceasefire, hoping it somehow becomes permanent, is the way forward… Would Hamas stop firing rockets? Would it release the hostages? Would its murderous ideology change?”

All people will see is the headlines that the UK is calling for a ‘ceasefire’ - it’s rubbish, the UK’s policy on supporting Israel hasn’t changed.

I'm not sure I agree. Cameron using the word "ceasefire" is a strong sign that the government has run out of patience. Of course the language used in public is measured as Israel is an ally but you can bet that behind closed doors stronger words have been said.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm not sure I agree. Cameron using the word "ceasefire" is a strong sign that the government has run out of patience. Of course the language used in public is measured as Israel is an ally but you can bet that behind closed doors stronger words have been said.

Unfortunately the only strong words Bibi takes note of are those of his minority government allies from the far right.

 

[Zeberdi]

Unfortunately the only strong words Bibi takes note of are those of his minority government allies from the far right.

I agree - but @Bakero is right in that the language being used does reflect a frustration at the numbers of civilian casualties continuing to mount and a growing rifts between Netanyahu and the Biden/Cameron position on Israel - it just hasn’t got to either calling for an immediate ceasefire though.

Biden has said as much in recent days, that Netanyahu right-wing government risks losing international support both for it’s war in Gaza and what happens after

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/12/politics/biden-israel-losing-support-netanyahu/index.html.

 

[GT49er]

I agree - but @Bakero is right in that the language being used does reflect a frustration at the numbers of civilian casualties continuing to mount and a growing rifts between Netanyahu and the Biden/Cameron position on Israel - it just hasn’t got to either calling for an immediate ceasefire though.

Biden has said as much in recent days, that Netanyahu right-wing government risks losing international support both for it’s war in Gaza and what happens after

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/12/politics/biden-israel-losing-support-netanyahu/index.html.

"Uh-oh ............ it could be you, or it could be us, but there's no page here."

 

[Zeberdi]

"Uh-oh ............ it could be you, or it could be us, but there's no page here."

​

sorry

Same story another source

Biden says Netanyahu ‘has to change,’ accuses Israel of ‘indiscriminate bombing’

The comments, delivered at a fundraiser, point to an emerging, potentially deep, divide.

www.politico.com

 

[GT49er]

sorry

Same story another source

Biden says Netanyahu ‘has to change,’ accuses Israel of ‘indiscriminate bombing’

The comments, delivered at a fundraiser, point to an emerging, potentially deep, divide.

www.politico.com

Don't always get all the nuances of a politician's speech, but generally it looks to me like, "Well said, Sleepy Joe."

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I haven't taken sides in this war, because I think Israel has a case, and I also think the Palestinians have a case. Hamas are just terrorists.

Having said that, this deputy mayor has just outright lied, because Liberal MP Layla Moran has family sheltering in the Catholic church mentioned in this clip

 

[Zeberdi]

I haven't taken sides in this war, because I think Israel has a case, and I also think the Palestinians have a case. Hamas are just terrorists.

Having said that, this deputy mayor has just outright lied, because Liberal MP Layla Moran has family sheltering in the Catholic church mentioned in this clip

Yes, it is a complete lie - a clergy friend with several other catholic clergy, including a Palestinian priest, went to that very Catholic Church on a mission project a few years ago - so unless the Israeli’s have blown it up, it is still there.

Just so it is clear, anyone that supports Netanyahu’s government, supports the view that Palestinians don’t have a right to their own State and Gaza must be run under Israeli military occupation.

Netanyahu Says He’s ‘Proud’ To Have Prevented Top United States Policy Goal

The declaration puts Israel’s prime minister at odds with President Joe Biden’s stated goals for the region.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

The Israeli people deserve better than a Prime Minister that has done everything to thwart the peace process for the past decade and is ‘proud’ of having done so.

 

[jcdenton08]

You're always going on about Benjamin Netanyahu. Let it go, @ManOfSussex , you're never going to meet him

 

[borat]

A Human Rights Watch report finds that Instagram and Facebook are censoring and suppressing Palestinian support and news/reports of the ongoing Israeli atrocities.

Meta: Systemic Censorship of Palestine Content

Meta’s content moderation policies and systems have increasingly silenced voices in support of Palestine on Instagram and Facebook in the wake of the hostilities between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. The 51-page report, “Meta’s...

www.hrw.org

 

[Zeberdi]

Hope the utter destruction was worth it Mr Netanyahu? From where I’m sitting, it looks absolutely senseless

“The offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine's Mariupol last year at the hands of Russia or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in the Second World War.”

Middle East latest: 'Countdown has begun': Israel warns new Hezbollah leader after spate of killings

At least 93 people have been killed in an Israeli strike in northern Gaza, according to officials. Meanwhile, in Lebanon the Hezbollah militant group has elected a new leader after the death of Hassan Nasrallah - and in Israel, the UN Palestinian agency has been banned from operating.

news.sky.com

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

You're always going on about Benjamin Netanyahu. Let it go, @ManOfSussex , you're never going to meet him

 

[Zeberdi]

I don’t know how anyone can think this post is an appropriate contribution to a very serious thread and just after someone’s posted images of the most awful destruction of civilian infrastructure imaginable.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I don’t know how anyone can think this post is an appropriate contribution to a very serious thread and just after someone’s posted images of the most awful destruction of civilian infrastructure imaginable.

Read the post above mine you weirdo shape-shifter. You're all over the place on this thread, you don't seem to have any honestly-held stance on the issue

 

[Bakero]

Read the post above mine you weirdo shape-shifter. You're all over the place on this thread, you don't seem to have any honestly-held stance on the issue

What are you on about? Posting a link to a Disney song is in bad taste. Would you do it on a thread discussing a war in Europe that had left 1000s dead?

Zeberdi has held a consistent, informed position from day 1.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

What are you on about? Posting a link to a Disney song is in bad taste. Would you do it on a thread discussing a war in Europe that had left 1000s dead?

Zeberdi has held a consistent, informed position from day 1.

As I said, read the post above mine

@Zeberdi clearly dips into a central depository of links. He's always got two or three of those ready at hand for any occasion. NSC has had similar in the past where we - and a hit list of another top thousand sites - have been patsies to a sweatshop in Tel Aviv Uni churning out the links to try and curry influence. Funny thing with @Zeberdi tho, despite his attempted total dominance of this thread, I for one have absolutely no idea where his heart lies, if anywhere. Which is sad

 

[Bakero]

As I said, read the post above mine

@Zeberdi clearly dips into a central depository of links. He's always got two or three of those ready at hand for any occasion. NSC has had similar in the past where we - and a hit list of another top thousand sites - have been patsies to a sweatshop in Tel Aviv Uni churning out the links to try and curry influence. Funny thing with @Zeberdi tho, despite his attempted total dominance of this thread, I for one have absolutely no idea where his heart lies, if anywhere. Which is sad

Do you mean the post you quoted? I see they used the phrase "let it go". Is that what you mean? I didn't really get that post either tbh.

Either way, I can see why someone would question you posting a Disney song on a thread about a horrific war (if we can call it that). Do something similar on the Ukraine thread and see the reaction you get.

As for Zeb, he's explained his views countless times. I don't need to elaborate and I don't think he needs to either.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Do you mean the post you quoted? I see they used the phrase "let it go". Is that what you mean? I didn't really get that post either tbh.

Either way, I can see why someone would question you posting a Disney song on a thread about a horrific war (if we can call it that). Do something similar on the Ukraine thread and see the reaction you get.

As for Zeb, he's explained his views countless times. I don't need to elaborate and I don't think he needs to either.

He's posted countless links. Which is not the same thing at all