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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
The Fits
Well-known member
- Jun 29, 2020
- 10,106
Is it so hard for people not to confuse Hamas with the people of Palestine and IDF/Israel’s government with the people of Israel? Innocent lives on both sides have been lost by two clearly horrific and barbaric regimes. The side to choose here isn’t between those two sets of innocent people it IS the innocent people.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,346
This latest tiff started out with a sarcastic response to me quoting the UN Chief Communications Officer reporting on the desperate plight of children in Gaza saying it was biased.
As for your comment in bold - what do you think I have been saying that is in contradiction to that?
I have posted information from a cross section of sources as you well know
Including various UN organisations
BBC
Sky News
The Guardian
The Times of Israel
Jewish academia with perspectives from Jewish writers
Al Jazeera
and one source in the entire thread from the Hamas Health Authority that I quoted in turn from in the BBC news piece and which I put in inverted commas to show it was what Hamas were saying not fact per se.
You making ad hominem attacks on me or trolling me or this thread won’t make any difference to the FACT thousands of women and children are being killed in Gaza who are not terrorists nor do they support Hamas. If people think that is ok then by all means present an argument to say why it is justified- dont just attack me for posting that it is not.
It won’t make any difference to the FACT Hamas are a brutal jihadist group that terrorises their own people into obedience or that the attacks on Israelis in October were inhuman.
It is not biased to say that there are Religious Zionists that want to wipe the OTP off the map (as they have openly testified in policy documents and interviews) and create a Greater Israel and Hamas who apparently want to do the same to Israel.
I’m not shutting anyone down but facts are facts - If you dispute the facts I post then post alternative ones no one is stopping you.
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The Hermit Kingdom
Active member
- Oct 29, 2023
- 157
What has posting on this thread personally achieved for the various regular participants?
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,748
How come every single time I open this thread, you've posted yet another thousand words? You do it so often it's just become word salad now. Word with yourself?I give up - this is what I have been saying ad nauseam from the outset of this thread - I agree there are ‘two sides to the political issue of what a peaceful resolution to the Palestinian question is (or what is desirable) there always has been - it is very complex and we covered those complexities at the beginning of the thread. In recent days however, the narrative has moved on and wider MSN news reporting has focused on the plight of Palestinians in Gaza and calls for Isreal to exercise more restraint/protect civilians (so obviously news updated of what is happening will get posted ) - that is not ’biased’ and not ‘opinion’ it is fact.
I just don’t understand how posts that literally report what is happening from reliable news sources is ‘shutting down debate’? Surely - If people don’t want to talk about what is happening in Gaza at this time (because that is the war that this thread is about) then why not just ignore the thread?
A slightly odd question - what does anyone get from posted regularly on any of the long running threads on NSC?
Personally, I think there is a lot of value in unpacking some of the elements that have led to years of conflict between Israel and the Palestinian people as well as calling out extremism or racism where it exists. Dialogue and debate even in this Country on social media etc can help foster understanding of what the ‘other’ wants - without that, what chance for peace?
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,346
Back to the thread topic and in relation to BBC report posted above regarding eye witness attacks on 7/10
Netanyhau calls for the international community to condemn the attack on 7/10
news.sky.com
Netanyhau calls for the international community to condemn the attack on 7/10
Netanyahu says human rights groups are turning a blind eye to alleged rapes by Hamas
Israel's government is accusing the international community, particularly the United Nations, of ignoring the pain of Israeli victims.
news.sky.com
Insel affe
HellBilly
Self gratification and the need to get one's point across in the hope everyone either agrees with them or surrenders.
Very much like the whole situation out there, as in there is no winner and it is pointless.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,346
Believe me there is no ‘self-gratification’ in being subject to repeated personal attacks and digs at my integrity (or race) just for taking the humanitarian POV on the suffering of others and wanting to highlight their plight. There is no winner, no one is trying to win a political argument (least of all me) but I don’t believe it it right to brush under the carpet (or ignore) the many 1,000s of innocent people that are getting caught in the middle through no fault of their own. That is the point.
As reflected here
Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory - Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect
Israeli forces have perpetrated likely atrocity crimes in Gaza and the Occupied West Bank, including possible war crimes, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups have also perpetrated likely atrocity crimes.
www.globalr2p.org
Insel affe
HellBilly
Fair enough, but I do not see the same amount of zeal you portray in this thread as in the Ukraine issue, which is now on page four of the big board.
I see in your posts someone who is passionate, on this issue, I will give you that. I possibly think you do lean to one side, but that is natural.
I am not reading that, sorry, pointless both sides are going to do what they do, both sides take no notice of the UN or for that matter what the USA says. Israel will stop when it wants, Hamas will attack when it wants, folks are living in dream world if they think this will be resolved in our life time.As reflected here
Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory - Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect
Israeli forces have perpetrated likely atrocity crimes in Gaza and the Occupied West Bank, including possible war crimes, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups have also perpetrated likely atrocity crimes.
There will always be the next generation of Israelis and Palestinians who have lost loved ones and will perpetuate the scenario sadly.
all the data and opinions are sweet, but pointless.
There is feck all you or I can do.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,346
All fair points but just to clarify the ’side‘ I lean on (which actually isn’t a ‘side’, it is a neutral position politically) is highlighting human rights abuses and crimes against humanity on both sides - not because I am Jewish, as you keep trying to suggest but because of my sense of humanity. That report you refuse to read, documents international war crimes and human rights abuses (as reported by the UN and HR NGOs) by both the IDF and Hamas.
We are not impotent - we have voices. OK it is a personal opinion but I do actually believe it is right to speak out against human rights abuses and crimes against humanity. That is something we can all do - or at least refrain from trying to bully people into silence when others speak out against injustice and crimes against humanity.
Btw - I haven’t got involved in the Ukraine thread because there are enough NSCers speaking out on behalf of victims of illegal occupation (ie Crimea) and aggression on that thread - and it is largely uncontentious - few people would agree with Putin’s treatment of Ukrainians. It doesn’t mean to say I am not equally appalled by the treatment of Ukrainian citizens by Russians and the devastating impact the war is having on Ukraine- (my Grandmother was born in Ukraine btw) Once refugees started coming out of Ukraine in the early days, I emailed groups and various people in my local community to mobilise support and encourage support for our local Ukrainian population here including helping to organise aid packages.
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Insel affe
HellBilly
of course.
And what good has it done ?
If you think I am trying to bully you, I apologise that is not my intention, I just see the arguments or opinions on here as mainly pointless for reasons I have stated, they will fall on deaf ears on both sides sadly.
Your grandmother being born in the Ukraine should have no relevance on right or wrong, my ex's grandfather (Polish) was tortured by Ukrainians during the war, I know she is passionate and has raised money for the Ukrainian people.
Well done you, I mean that.
You come across as a really nice fella, and I enjoy your posts on other subjects.
This is a subject you are passionate about, we will leave it at that for me and you, and move on.
The Fits
Well-known member
- Jun 29, 2020
- 10,106
I wasn’t referring to you or anyone on this thread. As I’ve said before, your input here is invaluable.I give up - this is what I have been saying ad nauseam from the outset of this thread - I agree there are ‘two sides to the political issue of what a peaceful resolution to the Palestinian question is (or what is desirable) there always has been - it is very complex and we covered those complexities at the beginning of the thread. In recent days however, the narrative has moved on and wider MSN news reporting has focused on the plight of Palestinians in Gaza and calls for Isreal to exercise more restraint/protect civilians (so obviously news updated of what is happening will get posted ) - that is not ’biased’ and not ‘opinion’ it is fact.
I just don’t understand how posts that literally report what is happening from reliable news sources is ‘shutting down debate’? Surely - If people don’t want to talk about what is happening in Gaza at this time (because that is the war that this thread is about) then why not just ignore the thread?
A slightly odd question - what does anyone get from posted regularly on any of the long running threads on NSC?
Personally, I think there is a lot of value in unpacking some of the elements that have led to years of conflict between Israel and the Palestinian people as well as calling out extremism or racism where it exists. Dialogue and debate even in this Country on social media etc can help foster understanding of what the ‘other’ wants - without that, what chance for peace?
I’m talking about the general broader discussion and the prevalence, especially from the MSM, to encourage the taking of sides of two sets of innocent bystanders.
TheJasperCo
Well-known member
Doesn't the sentence in bold contradict your third sentence?
POSKETT AT THE VALLEY
Well-known member
Shame on Israel and the USA.
...........as is trying to obliterate Israel and all the Jewish people therein. There are no good guys in this war.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
And the UK abstains on the vote. Utterly pathetic.
perth seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 5,487
The US are the biggest hypocrites and turning a blind eye to genocide.
While the UK are cowardly and seldomly will vote against the US.
While the UK are cowardly and seldomly will vote against the US.