[News] Middle East conflict

[aolstudios]

Hamas Hostage Shani Louk Beheaded After She Was Paraded Naked Through Streets of Gaza, Israeli President Says

Israeli-German hostage Shani Louk was beheaded by Hamas after being kidnapped from a music festival and then paraded through the streets of Gaza by terrorists on Oct. 7, Israel's president says.

themessenger.com

f***ing savages (no apology for either word)

 

[WATFORD zero]

Hamas Hostage Shani Louk Beheaded After She Was Paraded Naked Through Streets of Gaza, Israeli President Says

Israeli-German hostage Shani Louk was beheaded by Hamas after being kidnapped from a music festival and then paraded through the streets of Gaza by terrorists on Oct. 7, Israel's president says.

themessenger.com

Are the actual atrocities committed really not sufficient for you, so you scour the web for this sort of stuff ?

Shani Louk: Woman missing after Hamas attack is dead, says mother​

Speaking to the German TV news channel RTL/ntv on Monday, Ricarda Louk said she now assumed her daughter had been dead since 7 October and may have been shot in the head during the Hamas attack." At least she [Shani] didn't suffer," she said, adding that it was good to have certainty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67260093

 

[Zeberdi]

How can you negotiate with a death cult? Their stated intention is to kill all the Jews

That is a radical Jihadist ideology but AFAIK, while apparently in Hamas’ charter, that is not the immediate aim in this war/the 10/7 attack, nor has it been openly articulated by the Hamas‘ leadership in current dialogues with Jordan/Qatar‘s efforts to negotiate a ceasefire ( I may be wrong so sources if so)

The Rabin government did negotiate successfully in 1993 with the PLO and renounced violence towards Palestinians in the Occupied Territories so it is possible to ‘negotiate with terrorists’ and history has shown us, sometimes we have to but the current Netanyahu Government doesn’t want to negotiate a solution because their stated commitment is to a Greater Israel - (very possibly under the auspices of destroying Hamas in Gaza which most observers have argued, is not possible without destroying Gaza.)

Long term - Netanyahu‘s Government needs to go if there is to be any hope of a lasting peaceful solution for the Palestinian people IMO.

In the medium term, terms of a permanent ceasefire needs to include, Hamas to stop firing rockets into Israel, an immediate moratorium on settlement expansion and the destruction of Palestinian homes to make room for them, an ending to the rounding up of innocent Israeli citizens who are Palestinian (1500 so far) and imprisoning Palestinian children without trial or adult representation as well as improving basic human and civil rights for all non-Jews in Israel and the OPT.

In the short term - an humanitarian pause needs to be implemented to allow Hostages to be immediately released, foreign nationals, including Britons, to leave, and humanitarian aid to get into Gaza. Israel may need to consider releasing some Palestinian prisoners for that but at least agreeing to an ‘humanitarian pause’ is a first step - The Americans, the Israelis, Hamas and Qatar have all been involved in such negotiations since October 7 and have come close - but Israel has each time escalated the bombing and insisted on pushing ahead with a ground invasion because she will not divert from her primary objective - to destroy Hamas by destroying Gaza - an objective that only is not achievable nor acceptable in its means but is going to end up with the hostages very possibly killed - (along with 1000s more innocent Gazans.)

Hamas spokesman, Dr. Basem Naim, told NBC News on Saturday, “You can’t talk about negotiations while they are slaughtering our people.”

Hostage negotiations stall over Hamas demand for fuel deliveries to Gaza

Talks broke down Friday after Israel declined to allow fuel shipments and Hamas declined to guarantee it would release a large number of foreign captives.

www.nbcnews.com

Attempts to negotiate a ceasefire is already a lot more complicated than it was a fortnight ago as America is now directly involved militarily as is Hezbollah, with Israel responding by firing into Lebanon and Syria - and UN Peace Keeper forces along the ‘Blue Line‘ also targeted.

For negotiations to work all sides must agree to negotiate and for that there must be a willingness which, as far as Israel is concerned, will not be forthcoming until she decides her military objectives have been achieved.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The Palestinians' previous leaders were offered many & various proposals for piece & 2 state solutions from 1948 onwards. They turned every single one down & continued the current policy of constant shelling (100s of indiscriminate rockets daily, for years. Many of which miss & kill their own citizens - weirdly included in the numbers of Palestinians lost in the 'war') & random murders in Israel. Celebrated with dancing & distribution of candies

Would you like to explain carefully why those innocent people should somehow NOT be 'included in the numbers lost in the war'?

Why did those presumably blameless people not 'count'?

 

[Zeberdi]

The Palestinians' previous leaders were offered many & various proposals for piece & 2 state solutions from 1948 onwards. They turned every single one down & continued the current policy of constant shelling (100s of indiscriminate rockets daily, for years. Many of which miss & kill their own citizens - weirdly included in the numbers of Palestinians lost in the 'war') & random murders in Israel. Celebrated with dancing & distribution of candies

I simply refer you back to earlier posts on the thread that have presented a rather less biased version of history- there has been indiscriminate violence on both sides in this conflict - in particular see my earlier posts relating to the Oslo Accords, the willingness of Palestinians to work for peace and why they failed to secure peace. Also look again at Trump’s Peace Plan and why that would never have been acceptable.

Why you keep presenting such a one sided revisionist account of history is beyond me tbh It is not even factual.

 

[Bakero]

The Palestinians' previous leaders were offered many & various proposals for piece & 2 state solutions from 1948 onwards. They turned every single one down & continued the current policy of constant shelling (100s of indiscriminate rockets daily, for years. Many of which miss & kill their own citizens - weirdly included in the numbers of Palestinians lost in the 'war') & random murders in Israel. Celebrated with dancing & distribution of candies

This just isn't true.

In 1948 the UN adopted a resolution calling for the right to return of Palestinian refugees. This was an issue that the UN Mediator for Palestine had been quite vocal about before he was murdered by Zionist terrorists. Even before it was adopted, Ben Gurion voiced his opposition to their return. His comments were echoed by the PM in the 90s, who stated that it will never happen and the only so-called right to return is that of the Jews to Israel.

If they will not acknowledge the Nakba, dismiss the right to return, and illegally build new settlements, how is a 2-state solution possible? I'm sure you know that the current government is not in favour.

The PLO first indicated they would be willing to accept a 2-state solution in the 70s. Since then numerous UN Resolutions have been adopted in support of this, based on the pre-67 borders. Each one has been blocked by the US.

The Oslo accords in the 90s suggested progress might be made but then far-right Israelis murdered their Prime Minister.

 

[aolstudios]

Would you like to explain carefully why those innocent people should somehow NOT be 'included in the numbers lost in the war'?

Why did those presumably blameless people not 'count'?

Because they're quoted as if they were killed by Israel

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

This just isn't true.

In 1948 the UN adopted a resolution calling for the right to return of Palestinian refugees. This was an issue that the UN Mediator for Palestine had been quite vocal about before he was murdered by Zionist terrorists. Even before it was adopted, Ben Gurion voiced his opposition to their return. His comments were echoed by the PM in the 90s, who stated that it will never happen and the only so-called right to return is that of the Jews to Israel.

If they will not acknowledge the Nakba, dismiss the right to return, and illegally build new settlements, how is a 2-state solution possible? I'm sure you know that the current government is not in favour.

The PLO first indicated they would be willing to accept a 2-state solution in the 70s. Since then numerous UN Resolutions have been adopted in support of this, based on the pre-67 borders. Each one has been blocked by the US.

The Oslo accords in the 90s suggested progress might be made but then far-right Israelis murdered their Prime Minister.

It's pointless attempting to put a reasoned view over when all you get is statements without any factual evidence in return. The Israeli's had terrorists in 1947 who effectively changed the landscape.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Because they're quoted as if they were killed by Israel

Oh I see. So this isn't about the senseless loss of thousands of young lives then? Its only about point scoring.

 

[Krafty]

Because they're quoted as if they were killed by Israel

So Israel is not responsible for the death of innocent Palestinians?

 

[Bakero]

It's pointless attempting to put a reasoned view over when all you get is statements without any factual evidence in return. The Israeli's had terrorists in 1947 who effectively changed the landscape.

I never put anyone on ignore and like to hear a range of views but I must say @aolstudios 's contributions are a little wearing. Just baseless claims followed by laughter emojis when called out.

 

[SeagullinExile]

I never put anyone on ignore and like to hear a range of views but I must say @aolstudios 's contributions are a little wearing. Just baseless claims followed by laughter emojis when called out.

Exactly why they’ve been on my ignore list for some time now!

 

[aolstudios]

Oh I see. So this isn't about the senseless loss of thousands of young lives then? Its only about point scoring.

Wow.
Again.
A tiny part of a reasonable length post. My point was Israel is blamed for the senseless loss of thousands of people killed by Hamas' indiscriminate bombing.
Who's point scoring?

 

[1066familyman]

I vote we try pirates again. They didn't get a fair crack of the whip last time.

I vote we try pirates again. They didn't get a fair crack of the whip last time.

Interesting that Pirates were mentioned by the Enoch Powell impersonator, since 'The West' was basically built on piracy.

 

[aolstudios]

So Israel is not responsible for the death of innocent Palestinians?

Certainly not those I'm talking about. No

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Wow.
Again.
A tiny part of a reasonable length post. My point was Israel is blamed for the senseless loss of thousands of people killed by Hamas' indiscriminate bombing.
Who's point scoring?

No, sorry - that is absolutely not what you wrote at all.

You wrote that it was 'weird' that they were included in the number of Palestinian lives lost in the 'war' (your inverted commas - not sure why they are there):

Many of which miss & kill their own citizens - weirdly included in the numbers of Palestinians lost in the 'war'

 

[Wokeworrier]

Hamas will always be there. They go, more extremism will follow, it is a viscious cycle. But do agree with what you are saying, to some degree

Probably true, unless the Israeli government is committed to keeping a significant military presence in Gaza which I think extremely unlikely. Therefore their minimum (and completely understandable) operational goal will be the destruction of Hamas capability to launch further major terrorist atrocities against Israel at least in the short term. Plus targeting Hamas leadership and infrastructure on an ongoing basis to degrade their control in Gaza. Which is why any talk of a permanent ceasefire at this point seems faintly ridiculous.

 

[aolstudios]

You’ve only just realised that - I have had that on just about all my posts that have responded directly to him since he first joined in the thread on 7 October - followed by more laughter emojis for anyone who contradicts me instead of engaging in sensible discussion.

Best to ignore them imo.

(Queue laughter…)

Tempting but no. I'll hold back this time.
Thanks for the thoroughly condescending post though

 

[WATFORD zero]

Probably true, unless the Israeli government is committed to keeping a significant military presence in Gaza which I think extremely unlikely. Therefore their minimum (and completely understandable) operational goal will be the destruction of Hamas capability to launch further major terrorist atrocities against Israel at least in the short term. Plus targeting Hamas leadership and infrastructure on an ongoing basis to degrade their control in Gaza. Which is why any talk of a permanent ceasefire at this point seems faintly ridiculous.

And while we are on constructive debate, what do you think Israel and the west were hoping to achieve when they funded the set up and development of Hamas ?

You obviously missed this question when I asked you before

 

[Zeberdi]

Tempting but no. I'll hold back this time.
Thanks for the thoroughly condescending post though

That’s not ‘condescension’ - it is factually pointing out your excessive and inappropriate use of laughter emojis to try and wind up people who disagree with you. As Bakero pointed out, it’s getting tedious so please stop doing it.

PS when I said ‘best to ignore them’ I was not referring to you but the laugher emojis. I dont ignore anyone for expressing an alternative point of view to me.