[News] Middle East conflict

[SeagullinExile]

Not if you are a rabid conspiracy theorist but yes if you study the evidence.

Give me irrefutable, rock solid proof?

 

[Seagull58]

Yeah I would. I need evidence to come to a conclusion. I’ve seen nothing irrefutable from either side.

Have you looked at the video and the photos on the BBC website?

 

[1066familyman]

That’s the problem with the post truth world. Johnson lied every time he spoke. In doing so he devalued every word spoken by his successors.

Trump has done the same in the US.

At a moment when truth, gravitas and leadership is needed no one can really believe a word any politician on any side says.

Could we ever?

 

[Seagull58]

Yeah I would. I need evidence to come to a conclusion. I’ve seen nothing irrefutable from either side.

You've seen nothing at all from Hamas. Look at the BBC website and you can study the evidence they have compiled.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Have you looked at the video and the photos on the BBC website?

I’ve looked at hundreds of pictures and dozens of articles on multiple websites. None of them give any irrefutable evidence of what actually happened.

On that basis, I’ll keep an open mind thank you very much.

 

[nicko31]

That’s the problem with the post truth world. Johnson lied every time he spoke. In doing so he devalued every word spoken by his successors.

Trump has done the same in the US.

At a moment when truth, gravitas and leadership is needed no one can really believe a word any politician on any side says.

But Sunak still driven by the same three P's

Post Truth
Populism
Polarisation

Marginally better than Johnson but such a low bar

 

[BadFish]

The BBC has video footage of the rocket partially exploding in mid-air and then exploding again on the ground. They have geo-located it to the hospital carpark. The pictures of the carpark show a very small crater and incinerated cars consistent with a fireball as the unused fuel exploded on the ground. Video and pictures are on the BBC website.

Could you post your evidence for this. I have done a quick search and found this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67144061 (looks like this was posted earlier too). A quick scan suggests the evidence is inconclusive and that the explosion happened in a courtyard rather than car park.

Maybe I have found an earlier article?

 

[Chicken Run]

I’ve looked at hundreds of pictures and dozens of articles on multiple websites. None of them give any irrefutable evidence of what actually happened.

On that basis, I’ll keep an open mind thank you very much.

Most people with an ‘open mind’ don’t fall over themselves to quickly disregard potential evidence as you have done with the BBC’s I think this behaviour demonstrates possibly a mind bordering closed

 

[Krafty]

We won't know who hit the hospital any time soon but what we do know is that over 5,000 civilians have been killed because of this horrific conflict.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Most people with an ‘open mind’ don’t fall over themselves to quickly disregard potential evidence as you have done with the BBC’s I think this behaviour demonstrates possibly a mind bordering closed

Whatever you say.

 

[Seagull58]

I’ve looked at hundreds of pictures and dozens of articles on multiple websites. None of them give any irrefutable evidence of what actually happened.

On that basis, I’ll keep an open mind thank you very much.

You haven't got an open mind. You disbelieve the evidence on the BBC and you have seen no evidence whatsoever to verify Hamas' claim. What evidence would you consider irrefutable? One piece would be the rocket parts, which Hamas are refusing to show, saying that the rocket completely disintegrated on impact and literally there is nothing to show. Yet there was only a very small crater in the carpark and only broken windows in the hospital.

 

[Chicken Run]

Could you post your evidence for this. I have done a quick search and found this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67144061 (looks like this was posted earlier too). A quick scan suggests the evidence is inconclusive and that the explosion happened in a courtyard rather than car park.

Maybe I have found an earlier article?

Post 2,045 seems to allude the BBC’s experts have done a deep dive, watch the VT from the time mentioned in the post.

 

[Bozza]

From very shortly after it happened, it seemed highly likely that the hospital incident was caused by a missile fired from within Gaza, likely suffering some sort of launch failure, and I've not seen or read anything since which suggests otherwise.

The ground damage seemed very minimal, certainly not conducive with a modern high-powered bomb, the likes that Israel are raining down on Gaza day and night. There was no substantial crater to be seen.

There didn't seem to be any major damage to the hospital structure itself.

Frankly it looked like a very large firework had come down in a car park and caused the fuel in all the cars to ignite and explode.

It seems Hamas stole a march in the propaganda war relating to the incident, media organisations took it in good faith and that version of the truth stuck with many.

 

[BadFish]

Post 2,045 seems to allude the BBC’s experts have done a deep dive, watch the VT from the time mentioned in the post.

I will catch up on it a bit later, but a scan on the article I posted suggest that what happened was still inconclusive after their deep dive. That is why I am wondering why Seagull 58 is so sure of what happened.

 

[Chicken Run]

I will catch up on it a bit later, but a scan on the article I posted suggest that what happened was still inconclusive after their deep dive. That is why I am wondering why Seagull 58 is so sure of what happened.

2 minute job And tbf after seeing it you can’t help but think there is an element of possibility in it, assuming you have an open mind

 

[1066familyman]

What fascinates me is the continued belief by so many that somehow the US can broker some kind of peace deal. Even their Democrat leader goes to Israel and uses the term 'the other team'
Yes, true that they hold considerable influence on any Israeli Government, but short of the US refusing to continue to fund Israeli aggression, nothing is going to change.

Can anyone seriously put up an argument denying what Noam Chomsky calls...'the last phase of European colonisation' ?

 

[SeagullinExile]

You haven't got an open mind. You disbelieve the evidence on the BBC and you have seen no evidence whatsoever to verify Hamas' claim. What evidence would you consider irrefutable? One piece would be the rocket parts, which Hamas are refusing to show, saying that the rocket completely disintegrated on impact and literally there is nothing to show. Yet there was only a very small crater in the carpark and only broken windows in the hospital.

I don’t disbelieve anything. I need actual evidence to lay blame, so far, I’ve seen no evidence to support either sides claim.

So, instead of rushing to blame one side or another, I’d rather sit on the fence.

You may not like it, but quite frankly I don’t give a shit.

 

[Zeberdi]

’Falsehood flies
And the truth comes limping after it …’

 

[Seagull58]

Could you post your evidence for this. I have done a quick search and found this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67144061 (looks like this was posted earlier too). A quick scan suggests the evidence is inconclusive and that the explosion happened in a courtyard rather than car park.

Maybe I have found an earlier article?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-671644061

There was another BBC report I saw that geolocated the ground explosion to the carpark/courtyard but I cannot find where that is stated.

 

[Krafty]

Analysing sources is a key skill and helps strengthen your evaluation of the evidence.

I read BBC News as I think it is typically a credible source but I read other sources for different views - whilst others may have a completely different selection of sources from me, which is also completely fine.