Met Police wanted to ban Albion fans?

[Brighton Breezy]

Just a question in general, if you look under 25 - you get asked for ID in shops if your buying alcohol.

Since people are saying in this case that if you get asked for ID, it apparently instantly makes you a criminal - are you then basically a criminal for wanting to buy alcohol in the shop despite being old enough, if you get asked for some ID ?

Not an accurate comparison. Nobody is potentially stopping you in the middle of the road to check your ID on your way to or from the shop / pub.

 

[Rookie]

What comes first though? Fans being idiots so the police react or police inciting trouble from the fans?

Both, inside the stadium and to a certain extent outside it was clearly idiots but the Met really didn't do themselves any favors outside. There was no communication as to how long we were to be held behind and then when we did start moving it was very slow and they would stop without any sort of notification (or seemingly for any reason) which resulted in a crush at the front. Thrown in with the general disregard they had for us and the general goading by the police trouble was always going to follow. The previous year (the wall incident) had been much better.

 

[Man of Harveys]

The Met are being fiancially strapped by the government, if they had got away with banning Albion fans it would saved them a lump of money. Sadly there are a bunch of absolute Googles out there who Bing it up for the rest of us. Don't blame the police or the clubs, blame the pathetic tuurds who can't control themselves over a game of football.

With genuine respect, that's rubbish. My recent visits to Selhurst have seen me - like thousands of others, a peaceable enough soul - been subject to a laughably farcical and heavy-handed police presence, including having to plead with some thick, aggressive, over-macho prat in full riot gear like something out of South America to be able to walk back to our car.

It's been laughable, utterly provocative and an utter waste of money, but presumably very nice overtime for them.

The irony is that I'm old enough to have gone there in the 70s and 80s when hooliganism was a genuine wider concern and there was absolutely none of this heavy-handedness, not to mention generally very little actual trouble around the ground either.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Not an accurate comparison. Nobody is potentially stopping you in the middle of the road to check your ID on your way to or from the shop / pub.

But you arent being stopped in the middle of the road, you would be asked prior to entry of the stadium. Ive had to show ID at the Olympics/Paralympics and they were also randomly asking people at the Capital One Cup final last February (which i had some fun with as i had corporate Football League tickets), if anything its common place for big events now.

Its not far off the same thing, im saying to those who are saying that being asked automatically brands you a criminal if you get asked for ID - it doesnt. If you cause trouble, then you will be asked - simple as that and to be honest thats no difference to what happens anyway. If your stopped by the police for causing trouble anywhere, your details will be taken and you get asked for ID. If you dont cause trouble, then you almost certainly wouldnt get asked and if you do, just go along with it as contesting it will just cause much more trouble and you would almost be certain to get a 1 year ban for failing to cooperate with the terms of purchase you agreed to when you bought the ticket.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The Met got shown up at Wembley , this is their way of redressing the balance.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

I do sympathise with this. At West Ham away last season I asked a senior officer how long we would have to put up with the spitting and the throwing of bottles along with the usual, but rather more graphic take, on the gay chanting.

He told me that I should' p**s off back to that Fag*ots town with the rest of the poo*ft*s if I didnt like it'.

Tremendous work from Londons finest.

I have no idea what that word is! It has been perplexing me for about 5 minutes now.

Anyway, Do we actually know that the Met wanted to ban us or was it an option on their risk matrix that would have been discussed in the security meetings. Like 'behind closed doors', 'move to neutral ground', 'coach from the M25' etc..

They would have gone into the risk mitigation meetings with a number of options, we dont actually know if they wanted this.

I have never had any problems with riot police however the way some of our fans acted in Dec was terrible and was a little like pulling the tail of the lion. They then moaned when the lion bite back.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What comes first though? Fans being idiots so the police react or police inciting trouble from the fans?

I dont think anyone is disputing police tactics with trouble makers. But many law abiding supporters are treated with utter contempt by the Met and this is what angers us. I dont know which came first. All I know is that I am a law abiding football supporter and have had to put up with the confrontational heavy handedness of the police many times in the past. There is no doubt in my mind that their approach engenders a much more unpleasant atmosphere. You dare to ask a question and you are threatened with arrest, I have seen this happen. Surely this is not acceptable?

 

[Triggaaar]

Just a question in general, if you look under 25 - you get asked for ID in shops if your buying alcohol.

Since people are saying in this case that if you get asked for ID, it apparently instantly makes you a criminal - are you then basically a criminal for wanting to buy alcohol in the shop despite being old enough, if you get asked for some ID ?

I can help you understand a little better:
Most of us aren't complaining about showing ID to get into the game, it's having to show it when traveling etc that's the problem. To compare with your example, it's like people that look under 25 being asked for ID any time they're near a shop that sells alcohol, and if they don't have it, they're banned from all shops that sell alcohol (even if they are 25).

Someone having to show ID to buy alcohol is more like us having to show a ticket to enter the ground. If you look young and try and buy alcohol without ID, you won't get any grief, you won't get in trouble, you'll just be asked to come back with some ID. That's nothing like the same as being banned from attending games.

But you arent being stopped in the middle of the road, you would be asked prior to entry of the stadium.

Have you actually read the conditions?

 

[clapham_gull]

I agree with LBs point. The Police assisting a private company in it's commercial policy. Does the blanket threat of a one year ban come from the Police or club ?

It's quite unclear and more than a little unsettling. Where does the law start and end and is it becoming confused with terms and conditions of sale that are surely a civil matter ?

I'm so glad that Sussex Police and our club have a much more grown up attitude.

 

[LamieRobertson]

With genuine respect, that's rubbish. My recent visits to Selhurst have seen me - like thousands of others, a peaceable enough soul - been subject to a laughably farcical and heavy-handed police presence, including having to plead with some thick, aggressive, over-macho prat in full riot gear like something out of South America to be able to walk back to our car.

It's been laughable, utterly provocative and an utter waste of money, but presumably very nice overtime for them.

The irony is that I'm old enough to have gone there in the 70s and 80s when hooliganism was a genuine wider concern and there was absolutely none of this heavy-handedness, not to mention generally very little actual trouble around the ground either.

Totally agree with tht last paragraph ..I went over tht period and encountered no problems whatsoever

 

[Wilko]

I dont think anyone is disputing police tactics with trouble makers. But many law abiding supporters are treated with utter contempt by the Met and this is what angers us. I dont know which came first. All I know is that I am a law abiding football supporter and have had to put up with the confrontational heavy handedness of the police many times in the past. There is no doubt in my mind that their approach engenders a much more unpleasant atmosphere. You dare to ask a question and you are threatened with arrest, I have seen this happen. Surely this is not acceptable?

No, I agree but I do find that some people react way over the top. At Selhurst the police shouted to a large number 'Stop there please, can you wait for a few minutes till we can move you on'. Most of us said ok, no problems. A large number though started shouting off, why have we got to wait,why are you shouting at us, ****in joke etc etc.

Just did my head in - he shouted so all could hear us, he said please, he said it will be a few minutes wait. I do not see what the issue is. Maybe it is the teacher in me but it would be so much easier if people just accepted the instruction and followed it.

 

[somerset]

With genuine respect, that's rubbish. My recent visits to Selhurst have seen me - like thousands of others, a peaceable enough soul - been subject to a laughably farcical and heavy-handed police presence, including having to plead with some thick, aggressive, over-macho prat in full riot gear like something out of South America to be able to walk back to our car.

It's been laughable, utterly provocative and an utter waste of money, but presumably very nice overtime for them.

The irony is that I'm old enough to have gone there in the 70s and 80s when hooliganism was a genuine wider concern and there was absolutely none of this heavy-handedness, not to mention generally very little actual trouble around the ground either.

Spot on........its sadly this risk averse, pandering to the minority voice approach to society management we have seen evolve in the last fifteen years.....:banghead::banghead:

 

[Wilko]

The Met got shown up at Wembley , this is their way of redressing the balance.

The Met got shown up? Or did Millwall fans get shown up for being utter neanderthal twunts?

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

I can help you understand a little better:
Most of us aren't complaining about showing ID to get into the game, it's having to show it when traveling etc that's the problem. To compare with your example, it's like people that look under 25 being asked for ID any time they're near a shop that sells alcohol, and if they don't have it, they're banned from all shops that sell alcohol (even if they are 25).

Someone having to show ID to buy alcohol is more like us having to show a ticket to enter the ground. If you look young and try and buy alcohol without ID, you won't get any grief, you won't get in trouble, you'll just be asked to come back with some ID. That's nothing like the same as being banned from attending games.

Have you actually read the conditions?

I have, it seems i forgot them overnight and have now reminded myself. Either way its hardly that bad.

Between Brighton and Croydon, you probably wont be asked and you probably wont be asked until Norwood when your on the way to Selhurst, again if you dont cause problems then you will probably not be asked. If your acting up (which for the Met it could be the slightest thing), then you will be asked and no doubt they will target those who are singing and/or have been drinking. Its to weed out the troublemakers, of which there is a minority but thanks to the incidents last December, thats probably why we have this.

Of course we wouldnt treat Palace fans like this, because Sussex Police would just step back and keep watch until anything happens, which is the best way - but simply being asked for ID en route to ONE match is hardly the end of the world - if it was to be made law for every match - then I and along with nearly every other fan would be against it.

 

[bristolseagull]

the met are rubbish though
sussex police actually have a clue what they're doing

bit of a sweeping generalisation that.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Personally, I think it's quite sad that these measures are even deemed necessary. But they are. The behaviour of both sets of fans is tribal and dated, so what do you expect? I do think these mesaures are very over the top and they're being quite extreme, but I certainly see it from the police's perspective.

After they've gone to all this trouble, I wouldn't be at all suprised to see Palace finish 6th! Or, hopefully, 7th!

 

[Triggaaar]

if you dont cause problems then you will probably not be asked.

Indeed you probably won't be. It will probably be fine. And personally I won't be going to Palace without a ticket, because I don't live near there. But there are Brighton fans that live near Croydon, Clapham etc, and they might be made to show ID etc just because they're singing in town, which is hardly a crime - and they may not have that ID, because they may not be going to the game (they just happen to live there). If they're doing nothing wrong, it can't be right to ban them from the Amex because they live close to Palace.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

According to the Argus -

The Met Police were considering not allowing Albion fans to any potential play off semi away leg between us and Palace due to trouble at the last game. This is why the Albion agreed to the strict conditions of ticket sales, ID requirements and banning orders.

What do the Met do when Wet Sham and Milwall meet? When Cardiff go to Chelsea next year? Spurs v Arsenal etc etc?

Ridiculously over the top reaction. I have never wanted to meet Palace in the play offs as there is too much to lose, but google the Met, I hope we meet Palace at Wembley and they have to police that instead, with 40,000 from each side, now earn ya money!

where was this trouble then ?
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The Met got shown up? Or did Millwall fans get shown up for being utter neanderthal twunts?

BACKED OFF FROM THE STANDS , that's being shown up .
regards
DR

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No, I agree but I do find that some people react way over the top. At Selhurst the police shouted to a large number 'Stop there please, can you wait for a few minutes till we can move you on'. Most of us said ok, no problems. A large number though started shouting off, why have we got to wait,why are you shouting at us, ****in joke etc etc.

Just did my head in - he shouted so all could hear us, he said please, he said it will be a few minutes wait. I do not see what the issue is. Maybe it is the teacher in me but it would be so much easier if people just accepted the instruction and followed it.

Fair enough and I would have probably felt the same. Clearly the supporters were being twattish here. That said, all I want is to be treated with some respect by the police. Communication and good manners go a long way but at times I really do think the police let themselves down. I have certainly seen Brighton fans acting like idiots, and the last Selhurst game was some of the worst I have seen in a long time and we had some utter bell-ends in front of us during the game; the police are welcome to do what they want with these goons. But I really object to the way some officers deal with us and some clearly have attitude issues.