Messi rates England

[nwgull]

Cristiano Ronaldo (and Messi) can do things with a football that Pele/Maradona etc could never even dream of. But then Glen Johnson has scored better goals than Pele so let's not go through all that again

sorry, but to say that any player could do stuff with a football that Maradona couldn't is absolute bollocks. Maradona didn't bother with the fancy stuff, not because he couldn't do it, but because he'd just use his skill, strength and pace to go past a player (or 3) instead of arsing about and looking pretty.

 

[Mellotron]

Sorry, are you actually trying to suggest that because someone has scored better goals than someone else, they are a better player? And please do not tell me you are not insinuating Glen Johnson is a better player than Pele was. I mean claiming he's better than George Best was far enough...

If you are doing so, could you please tell me what grounds you are basing this on? Were you about to watch Pele and Best in their prime? Or have you just watched dodgy youtube clips of them and made your judgement on that?

I simply fail to see how you can justify what you said. I never saw Pele or Best play, but I would still never claim something so ridiculous because I'm in no position to do so - as I imagine you are.

No. Put simply - people are ridiculously rose-tinted when it comes to "old football" and there is NO question that skill, ability, physical fitness etc have come on leaps and bounds over the last 30 or so years.

Which is why I always think it is pointless talking about any players from more than about 30 years ago as "best players ever" as they WOULD look pedestrian nowadays.

You would definitely not see ANY left backs in the 1960s score as many truly fantastic goals (about 4 of them) as Glenn Johnson has so far in his career. And Glenn Johnson is NOTHING special. Do you see my point? We get shown over and over Best and Pele's best ever goals, yet you see the same technique and standard of football shown week in week out in the Prem, even in the Championship, and no one bats an eyelid.

Watch this: (not "dodgy youtube footage" at all, this is genuine highlights footage of the European Cup Final ie. The CHAMPIONS LEAGUE - Best Clubs in the WORLD)

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Did you see some of the defending from BOTH teams? (Best clubs in the WORLD, remember).

If that was BRIGHTON we'd be totally embarrassed by that standard of defending. It's properly hilarious.

It's impossible to compare the Peles of the world to the Messis and Ronaldos. It's so far ahead now it's practically a different sport.

Old Football is Rubbish.

 

[Mellotron]

Just watching it again and I literally keep cracking up. Some of those blokes ("legends", remember) if they played today, they would look like they'd never kicked a ball before in their life. Unbelievable.

 

[Mellotron]

sorry, but to say that any player could do stuff with a football that Maradona couldn't is absolute bollocks. Maradona didn't bother with the fancy stuff, not because he couldn't do it, but because he'd just use his skill, strength and pace to go past a player (or 3) instead of arsing about and looking pretty.

I never said anything like your first sentence there actually. I was wrong to say Maradona though. He's not from that long ago anyways.

 

[alan partridge]

I never said anything like your first sentence there actually. I was wrong to say Maradona though. He's not from that long ago anyways.

I was going to jump in with that but you've saved me the bother. I kind of see your point in some respects, I watched extended clips of the 1958 world cup final and it was pretty plodding, but Maradona...he was amazing.

 

[Spanish Seagulls]

Take into account the weight of the ball they played with, approx 18 stone when wet! Does anyone remember playing with the old lace up balls?

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

No. Put simply - people are ridiculously rose-tinted when it comes to "old football" and there is NO question that skill, ability, physical fitness etc have come on leaps and bounds over the last 30 or so years.

Which is why I always think it is pointless talking about any players from more than about 30 years ago as "best players ever" as they WOULD look pedestrian nowadays.

You would definitely not see ANY left backs in the 1960s score as many truly fantastic goals (about 4 of them) as Glenn Johnson has so far in his career. And Glenn Johnson is NOTHING special. Do you see my point? We get shown over and over Best and Pele's best ever goals, yet you see the same technique and standard of football shown week in week out in the Prem, even in the Championship, and no one bats an eyelid.

Watch this: (not "dodgy youtube footage" at all, this is genuine highlights footage of the European Cup Final ie. The CHAMPIONS LEAGUE - Best Clubs in the WORLD)

[yt]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vKJA8Kq_fxU&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vKJA8Kq_fxU&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]

Did you see some of the defending from BOTH teams? (Best clubs in the WORLD, remember).

If that was BRIGHTON we'd be totally embarrassed by that standard of defending. It's properly hilarious.

It's impossible to compare the Peles of the world to the Messis and Ronaldos. It's so far ahead now it's practically a different sport.

Old Football is Rubbish.

Which people are rose-tinted? The people who saw them play? Could you not say the same about you with this generation of footballers?

Football has come along over the last 30 years, but I still think you're being harsh on the best players of that generation. I still don't see how you can make a fair judgement if you never saw them play. If you were some bloke in his 60's who has seen both generations, then fair enough I'd respect your opinion. But as it stands I don't think you in a position to reach staunch conclusions like "they WOULD look pedestrian nowadays".

And whilst you can argue skill and physical fitness have come along leaps and bounds, you could say the same thing about the quality of pitches and equipment used. You can guarantee it's a heck of a lot easier to score from 30 yards with today's footballs and boots in comparison with those used in the 60's.

If you really wanted I'm sure you could find a full-back from those days who scored some fantastic goals. But I'm not really sure what scoring a fantastic a goal means. I've scored fantastic goals. Doesn't really prove much.

Anyway, the main issue here is that I still don't think you're in a position to judge. Yes, that video demonstrates some shocking defending, but again, you could find examples of that in modern football.

What I would genuinely love to hear is the opinion of someone who saw the best players of the 'old days' in their pomp. I'd love to know what they think about them in comparison to today’s stars. I'm sure there's some posters on here who could provide some great insight.

 

[HP Seagull]

If those players were playing nowadays, their fitness/ coaching would be far superior to what it was then, so they would be better players and would in no way look pedestrian. It's impossible to compare players from eras that are so far apart.

 

[NMH]

Trouble is as Conboy says, not only was the ball a lump, but so were the boots.
There wasn't the same fitness level at all, and defenders and goalies were haphazard about how they bothered to try and stop shots and goals (as that vid shows).

Still, there were skills on display, and the oldies did their best - bless their cotton socks

 

[Barrel of Fun]

There are more 'better goals' today as the football is much much lighter and prone to swerve more.