[Football] Messi GOAT?

[crodonilson]

PELE

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Yeah he's good but anyone remember that game when Abdul Razak was absolutely ON ONE?

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I still think Ronaldo is better and has proved his worth in the major leagues across Europe......even if he is a bit of a knob

The knob bit is a factor in my book!
Hard to say between Pele and Messi - different teams, different leagues, different times.

 

[Lenny Rider]

When players of this quality, the elite of the elite are being discussed, I don't think the phrase "by a country mile" can enter the conversation. You may be of the opinion that Maradona was the best of them all, but to suggest that he was "a country mile" ahead of the likes of Messi is patently bobbins.

Out of interest Easy, what is a country mile?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Messi might be present day GOAT for now, for the circle jerk, but the gap between him and Cristiano Ronaldo is pretty hard to call IMHO. Kylian Mbappé may well eclipse them both

 

[marlowe]

The knob bit is a factor in my book!

I suppose that rules out Maradona then

Mod edit, pic removed, no thanks.

 

[Easy 10]

Out of interest Easy, what is a country mile?

Its around the distance of a Harry Kane penalty, as the crow flies.

 

[Napper]

using the word GOAT . Bit nobbish isnt it

 

[MJsGhost]

Messi might be present day GOAT for now, for the circle jerk, but the gap between him and Cristiano Ronaldo is pretty hard to call IMHO. Kylian Mbappé may well eclipse them both

If it's down to a choice between Messi and the Portuguese Ronaldo (makes sense as comparisons between eras are so problematic and Mbappe has a way to go before he enters the conversation...) then my personal view is that Messi is the clear winner.

They have very similar goal-scoring records, but Messi is streets ahead on career assists (about 50% more).

One could pick out aspects of the game Ronaldo is better at (penalties, heading), but likewise you could cherry-pick for Messi's benefit too (dribbling stats, passing stats etc).

Messi's stats are from fewer games too.

And he doesn't come across as a thin-skinned, egotistical, preening, narcissistic, whingy, arrogant c**t.

(taking the filthy Saudi money to be their 'ambassador' does Messi no favours, so that clears the path for AliMac as the de facto GOAT anyway )

Speaking of AliMac, does anyone at Mod Towers know of any plans for a new emoji... something like this perhaps?:

 

[dsr-burnley]

I think what we're discussing here is "GOCTVE" - "Greatest of Colour TV Era". None of us know enough to compare the former GOATS like Puskas and/or Di Stefano.

Same basis as the commentators were drooling on about yesterday's match being the greatest match ever and we have never seen the like. Of course we have seen the like; but if it wasn't in the last 5 minutes, then it doesn't count. I can't think of any rational argument to say that this final was streets ahead of the 1986 final, for example.

 

[Triggaaar]

Maybe. In his favour (and Ronaldo's too) is just how long they've been at the top for.

Against Ronaldo is the fact that teams are now better when he's not in them. Not a great asset for a goat contender.

 

[Poojah]

I think a lot depends on your definition of “greatest of all time”. If we’re ignoring any kind of relativity, it has to be a player from the modern era, and that has to mean it’s either Messi or Ronaldo.

Athletics is a good reference point; the progression of its respective world records tell us that humans get better at their craft over time. We know quite definitively that Usain Bolt is, almost certainly, the fastest human being to ever walk the earth, that Eliud Kipchoge is the best marathon runner, and Lasha Talakhadze the strongest weightlifter.

That’s simply what advancements in lifestyle and nutrition, training methods and equipment deliver. Therefore, if you had used a Time Machine to kidnap the likes of Pele, Maradona or Eusebio from their respective pomps and made them play in this World Cup, I think it’s unlikely they’d have made the impact they were capable of in their heyday, or anything like it.

When we look at those to have played over the course of the last 20 years, no one even gets close to the records of Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. Ronaldo’s record is insane really; 311 goals in 292 appearances for Real Madrid - 118 goals in 196 appearances at international level. That’s crazy good. And he’s made huge impact’s in the world’s top three leagues, over 20 years.

Messi’s record of 474 goals in 520 appearances for Barcelona is equally impressive. More than that though, he has no won every meaningful competition he has ever entered. Most importantly, now, including the World Cup.

And that’s something Ronaldo, who will be 41 by the time of the next World Cup, will never do. Likewise, Messi has carried himself with grace and dignity throughout his career, while Ronaldo has had a series of blemishes on his character. He exudes arrogance, perhaps an arrogance that is an integral part of his success story, but nevertheless it detracts from his greatness.

If you’d have asked me two years ago, I’d have sworn blind that Ronaldo was the greatest player to have ever lived. But now, I think it’s abundantly clear who is truly deserving kid that title.

It’s Phil Babb…sorry, I mean Lionel Messi.

 

[Seagull58]

Technically speaking, yes he is better than all of those players... thats what happens when you have access to professional training, nutritionists and what not from the age of 3 or something.

Always difficult to compare between eras since the conditions have changed so much. Difficult to compare Messi with Pele, difficult to compare Pele with Josef Bican and so forth.

Bican never gets mentioned in these conversations but 1800+ goals scored as verified by FIFA and estimates of up to 5,000 by players who played with or against him must make him an incredible player. Would Messi have scored 1,800 goals playing in League 1 or League 2?
I didn't see much of Pele, only the 1970 worldcup and black and white highlights of his earlier career. From his achievements combined with what I've seen I would put Pele, Messi and the drug-addled cheat on a par at the top. CR7, R9, Ronaldinho, Cruyff and a few others in the tier below. If Maradona and Pele are to be trusted with their opinions, De Stefano possibly joins the top three on the top tier.

 

[EliasTaproot]

Is the GOAT for me and my era. 90s kid though, so never saw Pele/Cruyff etc.

 

[Lenny Rider]

using the word GOAT . Bit nobbish isnt it

Not my words but those of Talk Sport's Jim Proudfoot.

Ali was the first GOAT in sport, but now even the women boxers have got a GWOAT

 

[TugWilson]

Pele for me.

With a massive tip of the hat to the likes of Eusebio and Garrincha

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Pele.

 

[TugWilson]

And there certainly wasn't the protection for star players like Pele that the "superstars" of today get. Pele was regularly kicked from pillar to post.

I will never view Maradona as a superstar. He was a dirty cheat. He was a cokehead.

Messi is a great player. I loved watching him in that great Barca team. But GOAT? Nah. Edson Arantes do Nascimento 3 times WC winner for me.

Definitely agree with the maradona comment , saw a documentary on him , sitting in his living room surrounded by thugs coke and guns before a River plate - Boca Juniors game . Yeah real classy act .

 

[Weststander]

David Beckham

 

[Swansman]

Definitely agree with the maradona comment , saw a documentary on him , sitting in his living room surrounded by thugs coke and guns before a River plate - Boca Juniors game . Yeah real classy act .

I think the coke part is irrelevant in this discussion. Not like you become a better footballer from being coked up all the time (though perhaps it could possibly help you in some indivudal game).

Interesting by the way that no one has mentioned any defenders here. Wonder what it would take for a defender (or goalie or defensive midfielder) to be a part of the discussion.