[Football] Messi GOAT?

[stewart12]

very hard to compare across eras as football has changed so much but Messi has achieved a colossal amount in this era

I'm also apprehensive to base who the greatest is on team achievements. Not saying they're the best but people like Best, Weah etc never played at a World Cup. Cruyff never won a single international trophy and Cristiano Ronaldo has never had a sniff of winning a World Cup

no player has won a trophy on their own (you could perhaps argue Maradona in 86), Pele and Zidane were blessed with great teams around them. Had Martinez not made a last minute save then Messi would likely be retiring without a World Cup win so does Argentina winning last night lift him into that status? Hard to say

 

[Insel affe]

John Crumplin surly

 

[SAC]

Messi is a fantastic footballer but is just about to trash his reputation by becoming a (highly paid) ambassador of sports washing for Saudi Arabia in a bid for them to get the 2030 World Cup.

 

[Swansman]

Zinedine Zidane or Ronaldinho, two of the most amazing players to watch.
And that headbutt is unreal.

Ronaldinho was something special indeed but he was only really good for 4 or 5 years. Agree that he was fantastic to watch though.

Zinedine Zidane was great but a little bit overrated imo. Don't think he was any/much better than Clyde Seedorf, Francesco Totti, Thomas Hässler, Gheorge Hagi, Robert Prosinecki and similar fantastic contemporary playmakers.

 

[KZNSeagull]

All I know is that Maradona was a cheat so shouldn't be included in any discussions of this nature
I would rather Messi was in my team than Ronaldo but the players who I thought were brilliant when I were a lad were George Best and Johan Cruyff

 

[Swansman]

All I know is that Maradona was a cheat so shouldn't be included in any discussions of this nature
I would rather Messi was in my team than Ronaldo but the players who I thought were brilliant when I were a lad were George Best and Johan Cruyff

Lets hope Alexis had a little chat with him

 

[beorhthelm]

yes, as i saw on one meme, picture of Messi surrounded by every trophy, the line "Messi has completed Football".

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Maybe he has equals, but can a case be put forward that anyone of his equals is greater?

In my mind, he’s the greatest.

 

[boik]

It's down to massive good fortune as to when and where you are born. George best was born in NI and was never in with a chance of winning anything at international level. Pele was born in Brazil at a time when they had every chance of winning everything. Cruyff was born in the Netherlands when they were international minnows but was a major influence in turning them into an international footballing power. Also the only one of the greats that reached the top as a manger as well, helping turn Barca into the force they still are.

 

[Questions]

It’s a f***ing GOAT

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

When he was 20ish he scored 23 goals in one season. Not bad

He then scored more than that total for the next TWELVE seasons. On top of that he was, let's remember, being kicked by desperate Spanish defenders during this time. To not get injured and keep producing every season is amazing. Add to that the level of assists every year as well.

Then factor in 98 goals at international level.

Then factor in the type of player he is. Ronaldo has changed as a player over time as things change. Messi has obviously slowed but he's hasn't just accepted age and dropped into a quarterback deep-lying position. He still just runs at people.

I'm too young to remember Maradona and he was clearly insanely brilliant, but the sheer numbers and longevity of Messi makes it very hard to argue against. As i said, especially when you consider the amazing lack of injuries.

Ultimately it doesn't actually matter.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Pele for me.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I think Messi may be the GOAT, but perhaps he has been allowed to do so. The likes of Pele and Marsdona did not have the protection afforded from modern referees as Leonado has had.

 

[Dibdab]

Maradona is the GOAT by a country mile for me. Literally dragged average teams to being the very best in Argentina 86 and at Napoli. Messi was blessed with being in a Barca side stuffed full of legends to shine in and the Argentina team this year is probably the equal of any other squad man for man. Similar scenario for Pele with Brazil.

 

[Swansman]

I think Messi may be the GOAT, but perhaps he has been allowed to do so. The likes of Pele and Marsdona did not have the protection afforded from modern referees as Leonado has had.

Maradona also got a lot of free kicks with him



Could arguably seen as "protection"

 

[Bakero]

I think Messi may be the GOAT, but perhaps he has been allowed to do so. The likes of Pele and Marsdona did not have the protection afforded from modern referees as Leonado has had.

You'd think people could get the GOAT's name right.

 

[Seagull]

A player seems to stand above others from time to time. Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, Zidane, now Messi, closely followed by Ronaldo, next Mbappé. Hard to compare across generations ... 672 goals for Barcelona is pretty impressive, mind.

 

[rippleman]

Pele, Maradona, Messi - different players from different eras.

I don't like to compare them, just think of them as three wonderful footballers.

Pele won three WCs - and scored 77 international goals in 92 games - but perhaps international football wasn't as competitive in the late 50s / early 60s? Also Pele played (with the exception of a stint in USA) all his football at Santos in Brazil. Maradona and Messi did it at the highest level in Europe too.

As I say, different eras.

And there certainly wasn't the protection for star players like Pele that the "superstars" of today get. Pele was regularly kicked from pillar to post.

I will never view Maradona as a superstar. He was a dirty cheat. He was a cokehead.

Messi is a great player. I loved watching him in that great Barca team. But GOAT? Nah. Edson Arantes do Nascimento 3 times WC winner for me.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Luxury player....

 

[Easy 10]

Maradona is the GOAT by a country mile for me. Literally dragged average teams to being the very best in Argentina 86 and at Napoli. Messi was blessed with being in a Barca side stuffed full of legends to shine in and the Argentina team this year is probably the equal of any other squad man for man. Similar scenario for Pele with Brazil.

When players of this quality, the elite of the elite are being discussed, I don't think the phrase "by a country mile" can enter the conversation. You may be of the opinion that Maradona was the best of them all, but to suggest that he was "a country mile" ahead of the likes of Messi is patently bobbins.