[Albion] Mercurial, majestic, magnificent Mitoma [20/10/23: New deal signed]

[Uncle C]

Education is never a waste.

I'm always prepared to learn from someone who is not standing on a soap box.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Last point, and this is why I think it is important, positive racial stereotypes reinforce the negative ones. They make it ok to believe you can generalise like that about a whole people and the individuals within that group. If one is true, why isn't the other?

Hopefully they’ll be some learning by some on this.

It’s similar to the common micro-aggressive assertion based on a stereotype that black men have big penises.

Gammon-Logic will tell you that NO ONE can be offended by being labelled as a person with a big penis, in fact, they’d tell you that it’s a compliment, but of course a lot of black people are offended because the label is based on a racial stereotype, that is the bit they find offensive and that is the Trojan horse that sneaks all the negative and hateful stereotypes in.

 

[Swansman]

I doubt it Swanny

People think we need to sign a Striker.The real problem is Trossard.He only turns up in 1 out of 3 games.The rest of the time he looks un-interested.We desperately need competition for him.This guy will not provide it.

As i say this signing does nothing for me.I am normally 100% behind what the club is trying to do.But this? Meh!!

Agree someone competing with Trossard would be very nice but I dont think he is un-interested - I just dont think he is reading the game well enough to find spaces when the opponents are actively trying to remove him from the game. Hopefully something he'll improve.

I've seen a bit of Kawasaki and think Mitoma is someone with the potential to play in a top league next year, which is why I find the signing interesting. Sure its comparable with Tau but the Japanese league is better than the SA one. We'll see though - agree there is a chance it turns into a "nothing" signing" as well.

 

[peterward]

I don't see a big difference between racism and racial stereotypes.

It is as ignorant to assume a positive as a negative about a person, on the basis of his race. It is a bad habit. We all do it to some extent, we shouldn't.

It is still a bit of a problem to me to say the Japanese people are honorable, tenacious etc. but it is certainly prejudicial to assume a Japanese person will be.
I have not said anyone was derogatory.

To say the Japanese may be tenacious, is very different to saying an English player is full of the Bulldog spirit, neither is bad, they are just not comparable in any way that makes sense for this conversation.

What I posted isn't PC nonsense, maybe it is woke, I have not said the original post was malicious, or hateful, but it absolutely is prejudicial to pre judge someone, and the criteria for that judgement in this case was his race.

I found the post mildly racist, and commented "A bit racist mate", there has been one or two worse posted since, but I have assumed there was a bit of trolling of me going on there and decided to leave it alone.

I didn't say the poster is a racist, I said his post was a bit racist, at least that is what I meant. I said a 'bit' racist because he was not being nasty or hateful. I wasn't trying to start a fire, and would have been really happy to have had no further comment about it, but if people like you can't see what I mean and pull me up on it, I am going to try and explain it, as boring and off topic as it might be for everyone else.

Last point, and this is why I think it is important, positive racial stereotypes reinforce the negative ones. They make it ok to believe you can generalise like that about a whole people and the individuals within that group. If one is true, why isn't the other?

This is a self created system of your own. Why would a "positive" stereotype create negative ones that could be deemed racist?

Is calling English tea drinkers (a common expression based on societal norms) a bit racist?

No it isn't. Abusing someone, acting with malice, or any form of hatred or exclusion because they are English ....or Japanese, is racist.

Honour and the honour based system is a very very prevalent societal norm within Japan and other countries like S .Korea, it's a fact. Is everybody honourable? No of course not, just as not everyone here drinks tea or French people don't all eat Garlic and the Welsh don't all sing. But for Sydney to highlight some Japanese societal norms and a common stereotype that is broadly accurate (and both are positive not negative human attributes) is in no way even a bit hate speech imho.

It's Peter and the wolf stuff and it weakens the fight against real abhorrent and ugly true racism, like our England heroes suffered after the final.

You admit it's woke, wokism is becoming more of a problem in society imho as there are so many woke warriors crying wolf, branding people and throwing around insinuations than true racists who marginalise others or use hate speech (scumbags) who of course should always be called out and strongly sanctioned.

A re calibration of the woke barometer wouldnt go a miss! Not a dig at you baldseagull, I genuinely think Sydney said nothing that construes real racism and a few positives that are in fact societal norm based common (positive) sterotypes.

 

[Swansman]

Hopefully they’ll be some learning by some on this.

It’s similar to the common micro-aggressive assertion based on a stereotype that black men have big penises.

Gammon-Logic will tell you that NO ONE can be offended by being labelled as a person with a big penis, in fact, they’d tell you that it’s a compliment, but of course a lot of black people are offended because the label is based on a racial stereotype, that is the bit they find offensive and that is the Trojan horse that sneaks all the negative and hateful stereotypes in.

Well when my brutally honest ex-girlfriend told my insecure 17 year old self that I had the most average penis on earth, I certainly took it as a compliment and smiled for about three months.

The SCENES if she had told me it was big.

 

[mikeyjh]

It is as ignorant to assume a positive as a negative about a person, on the basis of his race. It is a bad habit. We all do it to some extent, we shouldn't.

Last point, and this is why I think it is important, positive racial stereotypes reinforce the negative ones. They make it ok to believe you can generalise like that about a whole people and the individuals within that group. If one is true, why isn't the other?

I landed on this thread in error - I couldn't agree more but you managed to articulate it better than I. It is a bad habit and one we can so easily and innocently fall in to, the trouble is if you try and pick someone up on this, they're likely to tell you it's health and safety gone mad. It frustrates me - I really like and admire Nihal Arthanayake but he's done this twice recently, tweeting how wonderful and friendly the Welsh people are and then latterly the Japanese. Living in deepest darkest North Wales, I can confirm there are many great people here and, like everywhere else, a bunch of a-holes. Likewise Japan, likewise everywhere, ever.

Like you said, it's just a it of a bad habit that is can be a lead in to casual racism.

 

[Bakero]

I landed on this thread in error - I couldn't agree more but you managed to articulate it better than I. It is a bad habit and one we can so easily and innocently fall in to, the trouble is if you try and pick someone up on this, they're likely to tell you it's health and safety gone mad. It frustrates me - I really like and admire Nihal Arthanayake but he's done this twice recently, tweeting how wonderful and friendly the Welsh people are and then latterly the Japanese. Living in deepest darkest North Wales, I can confirm there are many great people here and, like everywhere else, a bunch of a-holes. Likewise Japan, likewise everywhere, ever.

Like you said, it's just a it of a bad habit that is can be a lead in to casual racism.

Unfortunately, it seems some are unwilling to even contemplate it's problematic.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

A player signing thread derailed into a racism discussion.

What a time to be alive.



Maybe the mods can split the thread into 2 topics ?

 

[peterward]

I landed on this thread in error - I couldn't agree more but you managed to articulate it better than I. It is a bad habit and one we can so easily and innocently fall in to, the trouble is if you try and pick someone up on this, they're likely to tell you it's health and safety gone mad. It frustrates me - I really like and admire Nihal Arthanayake but he's done this twice recently, tweeting how wonderful and friendly the Welsh people are and then latterly the Japanese. Living in deepest darkest North Wales, I can confirm there are many great people here and, like everywhere else, a bunch of a-holes. Likewise Japan, likewise everywhere, ever.

Like you said, it's just a it of a bad habit that is can be a lead in to casual racism.

Unfortunately, it seems some are unwilling to even contemplate it's problematic.

More fool me for trying to be rational in a bastion of woke/leftist nonsense, but how on earth can what the fantastic Nihal have said be construed to beings gateway for "casual racism". Where is there even 1 iota of factual proof that very reasonable statements like you just suggested (I'll take your word as I didn't hear it) could be a step from casual racism ?

What is that btw? Not normally racist, no hatred or malice for anyone but just do a bit of racism here and there?

Using the race card or even implying racism where none exists cheapens, weakens and damages the fight against real/actual racism imho.

I love Thailand, been there many times with my family, they call themselves "the land of smiles", in general, in my opinion, the majority of people I've met are warm, generous and they do smile.

When people ask where I like, I say Thailand and one reason if many, is that people are generally very warm and friendly...... They are

Does that mean everyone is? No obvs not, they have seedy underbelly in Bangkok and criminality, but that is a very small minority. Most people are friendly and warm..... Is it a bit racist or a gateway to being a casual racist to state your experience which is more than likely going to be very similar to others as warmness, friendliness and smiling is a common societal trait for that country?


I just got back from Greece, again I was taken by how warm and hospitable the people are, if I articulate that, that the Greek people were lovely warm and hospitable (as they really were) am I a few steps away from racially abusing or discrimination against people part time?

You know what, I love Wales, and I'll always say what a beautiful country it is, based on the beaches, Snowdonia, Llangollen whatever..... I recognise that some estates in Neath or Merthyr are incompatible with that statement, but in the main/majority it is accurate to me. Am I pencilled in for some hate speech?

Brighton like Derby brand themselves as a "family clubs", I don't see any inconsistency in that statement, most I guess would identify with it..... But do grown men swear in the football in the heat of the moment and say things they wouldn't at home with their family, yes some will, will the occasional thug/hooligan who lets the club and other 99% of fans down make it a danger for others to slip into "casual racism" for continuing to say we are "family clubs".

Nihal is a wonderful man, and if he observed many friendly people in Wales and Japan that is nothing more than a compliment.

 

[peterward]

A player signing thread derailed into a racism discussion.
No
What a time to be alive.



Maybe the mods can split the thread into 2 topics ?

You're right BV. I apologise and will say no more.

 

[Baldseagull]

This is a self created system of your own. Why would a "positive" stereotype create negative ones that could be deemed racist?

Is calling English tea drinkers (a common expression based on societal norms) a bit racist?

No it isn't. Abusing someone, acting with malice, or any form of hatred or exclusion because they are English ....or Japanese, is racist.

Honour and the honour based system is a very very prevalent societal norm within Japan and other countries like S .Korea, it's a fact. Is everybody honourable? No of course not, just as not everyone here drinks tea or French people don't all eat Garlic and the Welsh don't all sing. But for Sydney to highlight some Japanese societal norms and a common stereotype that is broadly accurate (and both are positive not negative human attributes) is in no way even a bit hate speech imho.

It's Peter and the wolf stuff and it weakens the fight against real abhorrent and ugly true racism, like our England heroes suffered after the final.

You admit it's woke, wokism is becoming more of a problem in society imho as there are so many woke warriors crying wolf, branding people and throwing around insinuations than true racists who marginalise others or use hate speech (scumbags) who of course should always be called out and strongly sanctioned.

A re calibration of the woke barometer wouldnt go a miss! Not a dig at you baldseagull, I genuinely think Sydney said nothing that construes real racism and a few positives that are in fact societal norm based common (positive) sterotypes.

No, it isn't racist to say the English are tea drinkers, it isn't positive or negative, but the Irish drink it just as much and the Turkish even more, neither have tea drinking as a stereotype that I am aware of.
But, if a Japanese club signed a 5'4" Englishman, and someone on a Japanese forum said "I love this signing, The English really like their tea, don't complain about queuing, have good manners and love talking about the weather, welcome Big man" I think that is a "bit" racist.


Maybe we have different definitions of racist, and for you it has to include deliberate abuse, but that isn't how I see it. Some people would say a black person can't be racist to a white person because white people have power, I don't see it like that either. Maybe you would be happier with the term racialist than racist, but there is little difference in reality.

 

[GT49er]

You're right BV. I apologise and will say no more.

You need say no more - your posts have been excellent, and spot on. The calling out of racism where it doesn't exist is only a hindrance to the real and important fight against actual racism.

 

[peterward]

No, it isn't racist to say the English are tea drinkers, it isn't positive or negative, but the Irish drink it just as much and the Turkish even more, neither have tea drinking as a stereotype that I am aware of.
But, if a Japanese club signed a 5'4" Englishman, and someone on a Japanese forum said "I love this signing, The English really like their tea, don't complain about queuing, have good manners and love talking about the weather, welcome Big man" I think that is a "bit" racist.


Maybe we have different definitions of racist, and for you it has to include deliberate abuse, but that isn't how I see it. Some people would say a black person can't be racist to a white person because white people have power, I don't see it like that either. Maybe you would be happier with the term racialist than racist, but there is little difference in reality.

I apologise as I said I wouldnt reply again, but will to you and you only once again! we will just have to agree to disagree.

The average height (according to search online) of a UK 18 year old male is 5'9, the same for an 18 year old Japanese man is 5'7. It is a statistical fact, that on average men of a certain age are a bit taller here and a bit shorter there. none of that in any way correlates to racism unless you are judging or mocking a person based on their perceived height. In both countries there will be taller and shorter people than the average.

The English are large tea drinkers, that societal generalisation is true. It doesnt suggest all and everyone likes it and if other nations drink more or less it doesnt make it any less correct about the English.

We have very different opinions of racist. I dont believe for one second you are racist and I know i am not. I personally am not enamoured with the term racist or racialist in anything thats been said in this thread as neither apply imho.
It should be intent based, or where some form of obvious harm is caused to somebody, somebody is hurt, sidelined or maginalised in a negative way based on something about them and not based on liberal notions of what people must think and conform to. There are many self appointed ideology custodians who think they are the arbiters of all. that is Wokism. Common sense says youre a normal decent person, respecting of others, just with a slightly different world view.

racism I accept is a real problem where it exists, but most people I truly believe are decent. Branding stuff as racist or even a bit, is a pretty serious accusation and a dangerous card to lay unless it really is unquivocally racism and not subjectie semantics or point of view.

im out. best wishes to you Baldseagull.I'll buy you a pint if we ever cross paths, i'm sure we'd get along, putting the world to rights just fine! UTA

 

[Taybha]

Kinel .

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Split the thread please, mods.

 

[Audax]

No, it isn't racist to say the English are tea drinkers, it isn't positive or negative, but the Irish drink it just as much and the Turkish even more, neither have tea drinking as a stereotype that I am aware of.
But, if a Japanese club signed a 5'4" Englishman, and someone on a Japanese forum said "I love this signing, The English really like their tea, don't complain about queuing, have good manners and love talking about the weather, welcome Big man" I think that is a "bit" racist.


Maybe we have different definitions of racist, and for you it has to include deliberate abuse, but that isn't how I see it. Some people would say a black person can't be racist to a white person because white people have power, I don't see it like that either. Maybe you would be happier with the term racialist than racist, but there is little difference in reality.

I'm with you. Too many people think that racism = hate speech, but that isn't the case. Casual racism is a thing too, and it's a doorway into creating unconscious bias in the way people from differing races (or religions etc) are treated. Racial stereotyping is just as much "racism" as hate speech. it's just not as obviously damaging (despite still being damaging in the long run - potentially even more so than the immediately obvious hate speech, because it's the casual racism and racial stereotyping that "normalises" certain ways of thinking and emboldens some into hate).

 

[sydney]

You have assigned him some characteristics based on his race, and called him "wee man".
He is 5'10", and you have no idea how tough, honorable or tenacious he is.
You just know he is Japanese and decided what you are expecting of him based on that, that is a racial prejudice.

for **** sake mate .......people like you are a huge problem , get a life ffs.

 

[The Fifth Column]

Hopefully he will smash the Belgian league with RUSG as they storm to the title and then progresses to our first team a bit more successfully than some past prospects such as Tau, Billy Arce etc

 

[sydney]

Kinel .

indeed..

 

[Bakero]

Hopefully he will smash the Belgian league with RUSG as they storm to the title and then progresses to our first team a bit more successfully than some past prospects such as Tau, Billy Arce etc

Based on the little I've seen of him and the very impressive stats, I've reckon he's got a chance.

I'll definitely be keeping a keen eye on USG this season.