MEP Nigel farage

[Triggaaar]

He was ridiculed as an opportunist when he sided with Leave in order to get the PM job although he believed in Remain

That's just a wild allegation you can't prove.

and believed that we would vote for Remain. Now, to his surprise, Leave have won and he's not standing for the job as it's obvious his heart isn't in it

Well it's obvious May believed in remain, so presumably her heart isn't in it?

and he hasn't the conviction or the wit to see the country through such difficult times.

This is just silly. If he sided with remain because he wanted the PM job, then he'd go for the PM job. Unless he's been told he doesn't have the backing, in which case he's accepting he can't win, which is not running away, it's accepting defeat. And it won't be the PM's job alone to negotiate settlements, to suggest he thinks he could have been PM, but that he doesn't think he could build a team capable of negotiating a deal is disingenuous.

Now his bluff has been called, the opportunistic hypocrite deserves both ridicule and criticism.

Listen to yourself. You're arguing that he sided with leave in order to lose the campaign and become PM, and now that he's won the campaign and not stood for PM you're accusing him of running away. It's a pathetic argument, you can't have your cake and eat it.

 

[Betfair Bozo]

I take your point. To me it shouldn't matter if someone is pro-Brexit or not, they should be the best person for the job. I just think Theresa May with her proven negotiating skills, particularly in the extradition cases of Gary McKinnon and Abu Qatada in the face of a very complex process with so many potential repercussions if it went wrong is the best option now. We'll see.

Setting the bar pretty low with the Abu Qatada deadline farce if you don't mind me saying. Having said that, I am the last person to judge who should be Tory leader. As far as the EU negotiations go it won't really be the job of the Tory PM anyway will it? It'll be a team of highly paid skilled negotiators. As someone who believes that a remain vote would have been in our best interests but also that what is done is done, I just hope that a conciliatory but businesslike tone is taken and don't see any reason why that cannot be the MO of either a pro or anti Brexiter. For me the question really is what concessions can be made (on either side) without alienating the 52% who voted out and the other 27 EU states. Hopefully the common good will prevail ultimately.

 

[The Camel]

This is really good as to why we won't see the falls in immigration some people demans, and therefore why we probably haven't seen the last of Farage...

 

[ManOfSussex]

Setting the bar pretty low with the Abu Qatada deadline farce if you don't mind me saying. Having said that, I am the last person to judge who should be Tory leader. As far as the EU negotiations go it won't really be the job of the Tory PM anyway will it? It'll be a team of highly paid skilled negotiators. As someone who believes that a remain vote would have been in our best interests but also that what is done is done, I just hope that a conciliatory but businesslike tone is taken and don't see any reason why that cannot be the MO of either a pro or anti Brexiter. For me the question really is what concessions can be made (on either side) without alienating the 52% who voted out and the other 27 EU states. Hopefully the common good will prevail ultimately.

May ultimately delivered though. She spoke directly with people in Jordan and it went through eventually. It was never going to be plain sailing and neither is Brexit. She would be my preferred choice as PM, though I think it will be Leadsom. It will be a negotiating team as you say, rather than one individual. We need the best people though to see this through, not the best Brexiters.

 

[Diego Napier]

That's just a wild allegation you can't prove.

Boris was is an EU supporter and an opportunist politician; it's not a wild accusation, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand his actions in the context of the circumstances and his history.

Well it's obvious May believed in remain, so presumably her heart isn't in it?

Why bring May into a discussion about Boris's ethics? What's that got to do with the price of sliced bread, or with Johnson's motivations come to that? Anyway, she's standing so it's apparent that her heart is in it and she's shown a lot more integrity, there's no comparison. Good Grief, you might as well bring in comparisons with Ramsay MacDonald or Gladstone. How about apples and pears? [/QUOTE]

This is just silly. If he sided with remain because he wanted the PM job, then he'd go for the PM job. Unless he's been told he doesn't have the backing, in which case he's accepting he can't win, which is not running away, it's accepting defeat. And it won't be the PM's job alone to negotiate settlements, to suggest he thinks he could have been PM, but that he doesn't think he could build a team capable of negotiating a deal is disingenuous.

He wanted to have his cake and eat it. He didn't side with Remain but he though that he would obtain support from both camps. It was a gamble that backfired and stood down as he knew that he couldn't lead the government in taking us out of the EU. You ought to take note of "disingenuous" and indulge in a spot of self reflection.

Listen to yourself. You're arguing that he sided with leave in order to lose the campaign and become PM, and now that he's won the campaign and not stood for PM you're accusing him of running away. It's a pathetic argument, you can't have your cake and eat it.

That's exactly what I'm saying. You think it's a pathetic argument, I think it's pathetic that you can't see his failed Machiavellian attempt for what it is. He tried to play a clever game and he was caught out. It really is that simple.

 

[Triggaaar]

Boris was is an EU supporter and an opportunist politician; it's not a wild accusation

Yes it is. It makes sense to support the EU when you're stuck in it, but when the chance comes to choose, you don't have to tow the line. He chose leave. Just as the prospective PMs are saying 'we're all brexiters now', as they don't have a choice.

Why bring May into a discussion about Boris's ethics? What's that got to do with the price of sliced bread, or with Johnson's motivations come to that?

Because you're suggesting he's not standing for PM because his heart is not in it (ie, in the idea of leaving). May is standing for PM even though she wanted to remain in the EU, so it's a daft argument that Boris won't stand for PM because his heart wants us to remain in. It's just a stupid argument, if he felt that strongly about remaining in of course he wouldn't have campaigned to leave.

He didn't side with Remain but he though that he would obtain support from both camps. It was a gamble that backfired and stood down as he knew that he couldn't lead the government in taking us out of the EU.

Your argument just doesn't stack up. The accusation is that he chose the leave campaign, against is heart and principles, because it suited his desire to become PM, becomes ridiculous when you then say he doesn't want to be PM because his heart's not in leaving the EU. It's just daft, after you've said he basically has no principles.

You ought to take note of "disingenuous" and indulge in a spot of self reflection.

I'm honest and blunt to a fault, so I don't think that's necessary, thanks.

 

[nicko31]

This is really good as to why we won't see the falls in immigration some people demans, and therefore why we probably haven't seen the last of Farage...

Yep, Farage will pick his moment if he feels things aren't going his way.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Yep, Farage will pick his moment if he feels things aren't going his way.

I think Farage is finished at the top level of politics. The EU thinks he is a coward for resigning as UKIP leader at the business end of the Brexit negotiations, the Tory Party are pissed off he's taken votes away from them and precipitated a split in their party, Labour won't be happy that his parting shot was to urge his successor to target Labour voters. A lot of UKIP members will be annoyed he's gone now at a critical juncture.

Half of the UK electorate will never forgive him for what he's done to the UK with the referendum and a significant minority of the LEAVE voters now feel misled by his false hopes and promises.

He himself said he wants his life back.

 

[highflyer]

As far as the EU negotiations go it won't really be the job of the Tory PM anyway will it? It'll be a team of highly paid skilled negotiators.

Actually it seems it may be a team of rebadged consultants from the big four https://next.ft.com/content/7ccfd858-41e0-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d

This won't come cheap. And I think we can safely assume that it will lead to some spectacularly lucrative opportunities for those same big four firms when it comes to advising clients on how to take best advantage of the outcomes of the negotiations.

Thanks f*ck we have freed ourselves from the shackles of the elite eh

 

[highflyer]

Guess or not, I suspect this is one of the most accurate statements we have seen linked to the whole Brexit fiasco.

This is really good as to why we won't see the falls in immigration some people demans, and therefore why we probably haven't seen the last of Farage...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Setting the bar pretty low with the Abu Qatada deadline farce if you don't mind me saying. Having said that, I am the last person to judge who should be Tory leader. As far as the EU negotiations go it won't really be the job of the Tory PM anyway will it? It'll be a team of highly paid skilled negotiators. As someone who believes that a remain vote would have been in our best interests but also that what is done is done, I just hope that a conciliatory but businesslike tone is taken and don't see any reason why that cannot be the MO of either a pro or anti Brexiter. For me the question really is what concessions can be made (on either side) without alienating the 52% who voted out and the other 27 EU states. Hopefully the common good will prevail ultimately.

Guess what? We haven't got any, so we'll have to employ some, from abroad. Immigrants.

 

[Betfair Bozo]

The clue was in the "highly paid...."

 

[nicko31]

I think Farage is finished at the top level of politics. The EU thinks he is a coward for resigning as UKIP leader at the business end of the Brexit negotiations, the Tory Party are pissed off he's taken votes away from them and precipitated a split in their party, Labour won't be happy that his parting shot was to urge his successor to target Labour voters. A lot of UKIP members will be annoyed he's gone now at a critical juncture.

Half of the UK electorate will never forgive him for what he's done to the UK with the referendum and a significant minority of the LEAVE voters now feel misled by his false hopes and promises.

He himself said he wants his life back.

Think the best result is gets himself on one of those world cruises full of fellow Brexiters that last 180 days and just forget about the UK

 

[marshy68]

Guess what? We haven't got any, so we'll have to employ some, from abroad. Immigrants.

As farage said we should get the negotiators' from Singapore, Korea or where ever... oh the irony.

 

[Diego Napier]

Yes it is. It makes sense to support the EU when you're stuck in it, but when the chance comes to choose, you don't have to tow the line. He chose leave. Just as the prospective PMs are saying 'we're all brexiters now', as they don't have a choice.

I realise that he didn't have to toe the line, he made a calculated choice and it failed.

Because you're suggesting he's not standing for PM because his heart is not in it (ie, in the idea of leaving). May is standing for PM even though she wanted to remain in the EU, so it's a daft argument that Boris won't stand for PM because his heart wants us to remain in. It's just a stupid argument, if he felt that strongly about remaining in of course he wouldn't have campaigned to leave.

No, his heart is not in it because he knows that fact that we're Leaving makes the task of leading the country far more difficult than if we were Remaining. The fact that his double volte-face has lost him political allies and credibility in both the Leave & Remain camps has exacerbated the weakness of his position. Boris is really just a relatively amiable, woolly buffoon of a politician, Gove knows it, knows his weakness and stuck the knife in. May is a very different kettle of fish, sure footed, nobodies fool, a sound track and backing from both sides. Whether she can sway the prols will be another matter.

Your argument just doesn't stack up. The accusation is that he chose the leave campaign, against is heart and principles, because it suited his desire to become PM, becomes ridiculous when you then say he doesn't want to be PM because his heart's not in leaving the EU. It's just daft, after you've said he basically has no principles.

No, I said he chose the Leave campaign against his principles, not against his heart, because it suited his desire to become PM. I used the heart simile to explain his demeanour post referendum, I could equally have used his stomach, he hasn't the heart or the stomach to fight because his Leave support was not conviction, just a opportunistic sham.

I'm honest and blunt to a fault, so I don't think that's necessary, thanks.

Your evidently self-satisfied honesty and bluntness you probably believe go with the territory of being NSC's self-styled resident pedant however, amongst the dogged and perverse excitement of nit-pickery, donkey's hind legs and deathly ditches, you should be aware that if you misinterpret other peoples opinions or fail to accept that other opinions are equally valid or lack the imagination to recognise motivations and thought processes in others of which you aren't capable then you will open yourself to accusations of disingenuity.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Think the best result is gets himself on one of those world cruises full of fellow Brexiters that last 180 days and just forget about the UK

Yes, and if the ship started the sink he'd be the first to leave in a lifeboat...

 

[Triggaaar]

Your evidently self-satisfied honesty and bluntness you probably believe go with the territory of being NSC's self-styled resident pedant

As with recognising my bluntness and honesty, my title of resident pedant is actually an admission, rather than being a chosen style, and I say neither with self-satisfaction.

however, amongst the dogged and perverse excitement of nit-pickery, donkey's hind legs and deathly ditches, you should be aware that if you misinterpret other peoples opinions or fail to accept that other opinions are equally valid or lack the imagination to recognise motivations and thought processes in others of which you aren't capable then you will open yourself to accusations of disingenuity.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Well done Nigel, they didn't see you coming. Thanks for listening to people concerns and giving people a voice.

This all day long, a kick up the arse for weak defeatists
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

looney is a very practised troll. It doesn't matter how you debate, he will come back with a counter argument.

He's normally bang on the money something that the likes of you and the other lefty hand wringers can't stomach
regards
DR

 

[looney]

I see, challenged and so you point me off to a source of information that obviously, to your febrile state of mind, is the single unquestionable fount of all knowledge and truth?

No, just showing you that the quality of life index actually exists.

OK, I'll play your game. Assuming that firstly, 3 million is the number of houses that are required to be government built and that secondly, they will cost £300k (both of which assumptions, as surely you realise, are arrant nonsense), then their provision is down to choices and political will.

In the late 1800 and in the lead up to WWI, 5 million homes were built. Between the Wars nearly 3 million houses were constructed. During the 50's, 5 million more homes were completed. Since the Thatcher years of greed, I and the Self, the government has washed it's and local governments hands of direct support for social housing and made a woeful fist of either supporting or encouraging the private sector. What the government has done is chosen to build HS2, a vanity project that will cost well north of £60 Billion. Scrap that and your exaggerated 3 million luxury homes are easily paid for. And they've chosen to replace Trident at £205 Billion. And they've chosen to force the poorest fifth of the population to pay more of their income in tax than the richest. And excluding her land and that of her family and St. James Palace, Buckingham Palace, Windsor castle, Holyroodhouse, Hillsborough Palace, Sandringham, Balmoral and several Scottish hunting lodges, the Queen's commercial property empire was worth £12 Billion in 2014. And more and more bankers and financiers become fabulously wealthy. And the echelons of UK's fabulously wealthy grow wider and rapidly wealthier. And the gap between the fabulously wealthy in this country (along with their life expectancy) and the most neglected grows exponentially. I repeat, political will and choices.

.

Yea I get the rich screw the poor, but why would you want to screw them even more? Mind you some of those numbers are very dodgy, i mean...Between the Wars nearly 3 million houses were constructed.

That is 3million in 21 years, we need 3 million every ten years in a much more densely populated country.

Then we have this classic.

My response has focused on economics as I realise that with your psychosis, empathy, compassion and care for the less well off is not even anathema, it simply just does not compute.

Maybe "Grand planner" 1950s style economics but nothing grounded in reality, and you accuse me of psycosis?pfft