[Misc] Memories- How A Lot Of What We Remember Is Remarkable- But Often Untrue.

[Worried Man Blues]

I moved house when I was seven so I have a before seven and an after seven memory. It is confused by my father's stories that by repetition have become my facts whether I remember them now or just his repetition I don't know. He has now passed on and when that happens, suddenly it's only you and what you remember, you chance of verifying has gone.

 

[Eeyore]

Facinating thread. What is for sure is that the human brain is an exceptionally complicated piece of machinery, and it can play tricks on you.

I have vivid memories of both sets of my grandparents. for instance one particular one of my paternal grandma, (Nanny Gick as l used to refer to her, because she walked with a stick . . . l couldn't pronounce the word stick when l was very young), pushing me along the garden path in the family bunglaow in Staines, where l grew up., and l often used to relate that incident in my happy childhood to my parents when l got older, l thought they would like to hear it, and they seemed to.

However in reality, Nanny Gick passed away when l was barely 4 years old, and l can picture how she looked so well. Yet is anyone really capable of remembering anything from so long ago at at such a young age? I think almost certainly not. Was it just me remembering something that l would have liked to have happened? Who knows

Either way thank you for putting some flesh on the bones of the real Brighton Lines, (also seemingly a fan of my beloved 17), l have sometimes wondered about the real person behind the keyboard, and what he might be like. Sorry maybe some things are better left to the imagination, huh?

The first nine years are all here in an, for me, actually very interesting coffee time read. The first entry is an insight into the care system of the late 60s, equally sad and funny at the same time (none of that is memory but a summary of a long period of research into my own case including reliable, and perhaps unreliable, testimony)

You will make the connection with my obsession for the number 17 bus in the first entry of the series.

Talking of earliest memories, mine dates to May 1973 and is confirmed in my Dad's diaries. So I was just turned 4. I also remember discussing my new name for the christening in the October that year. I know my choice was Christopher. I didn't get it, but it's pretty impressive that I didn't ask for Batman or something like that.

A Life Like Everyone Else – The Queen's Park Chronicles

Posts about A Life Like Everyone Else written by Ian

queensparkchronicles.wordpress.com

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I moved house when I was seven so I have a before seven and an after seven memory. It is confused by my father's stories that by repetition have become my facts whether I remember them now or just his repetition I don't know. He has now passed on and when that happens, suddenly it's only you and what you remember, you chance of verifying has gone.

I moved house when I was 8. I have some absolutely clear memories that I know can't possibly have happened as I remember them because they're in the wrong house/garden.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Somwhat related, in terms of the weird things our brains do.
I read somewhere (I have a feeling it was in Freakonomics) a story about a woman who was doing the rounds of radio stations in America talking about how she'd been abducted by aliens who'd stolen her baby.
One of the writers of the book happened to be on the same programme as her, and asked a question that apparently hadn't occurred to anybody else, including the woman concerned.
"Were you pregnant?"
"No."

 

[Baldseagull]

Looking at the Mellotron game of recalling the players since 1980 with 100 plus appearances made me aware that the players I remember most are those that we had when I first started attending, and before I was old enough to get pissed at football, funny that.

 

[marlowe]

......Every time we drove past a house on the Old Shoreham Road, my dad would point out that we nearly moved there in 1963, and that instead Peter O'Sullivan move there because the house was bought for players by The Albion. No idea if this is true, but it's a cracking yarn.

Here's Sully enjoying his breakfast in what should have been your dining room.....

The picture's taken from the book "A Day with a Footballer" which featured Sully.

Later on page 52...Peter returns home after his busy day elated having scored the winning goal in that days football fixture. His jubilant mood is swiftly erased when his wife Pauline informs him that the man with the little boy have been driving up and down past the house again staring in through the window. "I've bloody had enough of this' said Peter angrily, "I'm going to phone the police". The matter was swiftly dealt with by the local constabulary and Peter subsequently acquired a restraining order against the man and the little boy.

 

[Si Gull]

I have always had extremely limited and fragmented memories of anything from longer than a couple of years previous. It's extremely frustrating as I can't remember holidays, life events, or football matches/gigs I went to. If it wasn't for Mrs Gull's memory and that of friends and family, I'd be stuffed. Weird.

 

[Stato]

Weirdly, we don't remember things unchanged as they occurred, we remember our previous memories of those events. Over time our minds change things as if we are taking a photo, then photocopying it, then copying the copy and that copy and that copy etc.

Your Memory is like the Telephone Game

Each time you recall an event, your brain distorts it

news.northwestern.edu

 

[dazzer6666]

A boring Saturday evening tipple thread by a teetotaler…

Memories v Facts

• On Easter Monday 1976 I stood on Hassocks station, aged 7, and heard that Albion were trailing 2-0 against Millwall. I distinctly remember it. I remember asking my Mum what trailing meant and she explained. It is a very clear memory.
• On Easter Monday in 1980, whilst on a bus at Lewes, I remember hearing we were 1-0 down to Bristol City. This is also a clear memory.
• If you asked the results of all the Albion home matches in the 1976/77 season I can remember them, although I didn’t actually attend any of them and only heard things on the radio. I also read The Argus Sports Final
• I distinctly remember going to Tarnerland Nursery with my brother. Yet this is impossible, He is three years older than me, so would never have been in attendance at the same time. Realising this destroyed the memory of a great day as he has since passed away.
• On December 9th 1980 my Dad came into my room and told me John Lennon was dead. I replied ‘Who is John Lennon ?’

However, all of the first three are FALSE memories, yet the fourth is remarkably true. How do I know ? I discovered 40 years of my dad’s diaries after he passed away. The truth is as follows:

• Albion played Millwall on Good Friday 1976. I was at Hassocks on the Easter Monday. The trailing question would have been asked in the kitchen upon return from Queen’s Park on the Friday.
• Impossible, we were at Rottingdean that afternoon
• This is only true now, it is an imputed and false memory from years of studying football statistics. If it is true, how come I don’t know all the away results as well ? Bizarre. There are only three matches I can remember from that year and one includes a false memory about my brother being in hospital that evening. He wasn’t.
• In May 1973 there is a clear entry in which it states my older brother joined me at the nursery for the day. May have been to help settle in for my first full day. Awesome memory, I was only just 4.
• It is quite possible that Dad did break the news early that morning, but the rest I think is now a lie that I made up in my youth and now believe. I cannot see how I would not have heard of the name given that he had been in the top ten the previous two weeks and would also have appeared on TOTP. I was a charts fanatic.

Whilst I discover some incredible passages which do confirm obscure memories, I now wonder how much of my brain lives in a perceived reality of factual and first hand circumstances. ‘Yes, I was there’ becomes ‘Was I actually there ?’ Incredibly the reverse can be true also.

I wonder if others have experienced evidenced based re-alignments of the mind, but also made startling discoveries.

If our first hand brains cannot process things correctly then I can see how quickly third hand information can become first hand and fact. It is almost a personal snapshot of how information is managed and corrupted in wider world. Fascinating, yet quite disturbing.

Trains on a bank holiday ? The mind does indeed play cruel tricks……

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I just had a few minutes thinking I was going completely mad and my memory was clearly totally unreliable, before realising Brighton Lines had changed their name.

 

[Van Cleef]

Here's Sully enjoying his breakfast in what should have been your dining room.....

The picture's taken from the book "A Day with a Footballer" which featured Sully.

Later on page 52...Peter returns home after his busy day elated having scored the winning goal in that days football fixture. His jubilant mood is swiftly erased when his wife Pauline informs him that the man with the little boy have been driving up and down past the house again staring in through the window. "I've bloody had enough of this' said Peter angrily, "I'm going to phone the police". The matter was swiftly dealt with by the local constabulary and Peter subsequently acquired a restraining order against the man and the little boy.

View attachment 169212

Sully's luxurious tache just looks... right.

 

[Bodian]

Weirdly, we don't remember things unchanged as they occurred, we remember our previous memories of those events. Over time our minds change things as if we are taking a photo, then photocopying it, then copying the copy and that copy and that copy etc.

Your Memory is like the Telephone Game

Each time you recall an event, your brain distorts it

news.northwestern.edu

Wasn't that called 'Chinese Whispers' - or is this n excellent case of me remembering something that wasn't!?

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Isn’t this what they call the Mandela effect ? Or is that something I am confused about...

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

For me the biggest Albion delusion, and one which I have often been slated for because I wasn't there, is the below truth.

There were 10,000 Albion fans present at Newcastle in May 1979.

This is false. There were around 5,000 and possibly slightly less than that.

So why do folk, including Mark Lawrenson who was playing say there were ? Well, firstly, they didn't at the time. This is the key statement.

Here are the facts:

1) Local news, including John Vinicombe, reported an Albion group of 5,000 at the time of the event.

2) The Leazes End at Newcastle only held 5,000. Video evidence shows it was covered by folk but certainly not at capacity. There would have been Albion in the seats, but elsewhere in the ground ? As one Newcastle fans says of the event:

'I was at the game, the confusion for Brighton players is that our away strip was blue, so our scarfs were black, white and blue at that time. Scarves were popular. I was in the paddock and they did a walk round the pitch to celebrate and our fans are always sporting, so they got cheered and applauded, with scarves being whirled as we always did end of season. The Brighton support was in the Leazes end and not packed full, but a healthy size of around 4k. There wasn't any Brighton anywhere else, they would have been mullered as I was with nutters in the new stand paddock who had chased them earlier and there for that purpose. The legend is but a myth, you couldn't be an away fan in any other end but your own, in those days, without serious consequences'

Mark Lawrenson dodgy claims of coming to Newcastle United backed by 10,000 Brighton fans

Mark Lawrenson and his unreliable memoirs, remembering coming to Newcastle with an army of over 10,000 Brighton fans.

www.themag.co.uk

3) Sunderland fans have their own claims, there may be some truth, but I would suggest much delusion too:

'Newcastle's fans were outnumbered by the Sunderland contingent cheering the Mags'

'I was there, the ref had a mare and Brighton were 2nd best for long periods. Cant say that I noticed any Mackems in the crowd. Brighton packed the Leazes End'

Newcastle v Brighton 1979

Saturday 5 May 1979: we are away at Wrexham needing to win and hope that one of the 3 teams above us - Brighton, Palace or Stoke - lose for us to go up. Brighton are away at Newcastle and take about 5,000 fans up. Loads of our fans who don’t travel down to Wrexham go to the game at Newcastle...

www.readytogo.net

This one has always been the most perfect study of how memory, sometimes willingly, deceives.

Highlighted is bollocks as I sat with my dad and brother in the stand along with many other Brighton fans.

 

[Berty23]

Most of my early Brighton memories were at away matches in Devon (where I grew up with a Brighton fan as a dad). My old man was in the navy so not home that much so weekends we could rarely get to Brighton but we got to some Devon away matches.

Memory 1
Codner scored from the halfway line in a 3-0 win at plymouth. It was a chilly day and not many away fans and I have no idea how close he was to the halfway line - maybe centre circle but in my memory he was on the halfway line. In fact maybe it was only 40 yards. 1993 I reckon. Maybe 94.

Memory 2
This is a memory but also a fact. New Year’s Day 1997. We lost 2-1 to Torquay and I think Gary Nelson for the winner for them. The memory as fact is the coldest I have ever been at football. I was hungover and the match should never have taken place as the pitch was frozen solid. Plainmoor is on top of a hill and the wind was blowing.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Memories can be trained ie times tables from school.
The modern world has forgotten how to train memories, but in many African nations, they didn't have a written language, so history of their tribe was taught to children by rote.
Modern teaching said that reciting didn't give children a chance to think for themselves so ditched it altogether but there is room for both.

 

[beorhthelm]

It is indeed something that has been discussed in regard to the use of lie detectors. Many experts believe reaffirming of a distance memory (of a non fact) the person does truly believe the event happened.

The big events that people say they attended but in fact they MAY have watched on TV, they end up confused however to how they attended. Mine is somewhat the inverse of that. I know I attended Live Aid at Wembley. I know who bought the tickets, who I went with. I was an apprentice aircraft engineer with BCal. Marc Holmes got his dad to buy the tickets and 6 of us went by train, I distinctly remember walking around Wembley to the entrance, we sat/stood next to the sound box (or whatever it's called). I lifted the protective rubber matting up and picked a bit of grass, putting it in my pocket. The concert itself I don't have a single memory, haha and no I hadn't even been drinking.

I'm disappointed that of such a huge event, my memory of it is just pointless rubbish.

this is my memory of pretty much most games been to, especially away. i can remember the journey, the pre and post game shenanigans, but game is an indistinct incident. likewise many other trips and events. im left in awe of people that can recall the scores and minute detail of games 20, 30, 40 years ago. i'm sure this tells something about how one's brain is wired.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

this is my memory of pretty much most games been to, especially away. i can remember the journey, the pre and post game shenanigans, but game is an indistinct incident. likewise many other trips and events. im left in awe of people that can recall the scores and minute detail of games 20, 30, 40 years ago. i'm sure this tells something about how one's brain is wired.

Yes while I cited Live Aid I too fail to remember games though I know I attended most of our big games since 1976. I remember being outside the Baseball Ground prior to our cup Replay, our 1-0 victory in the league away at Liverpool a year prior to the cup victory, yet only remember standing by the exit gates waiting to let out.

 

[Gazwag]

I was there at Brentford for Nelsons goal and I can clearly remember seeing him start his run with the ball by the front door of one of the 4 pubs, just can't remember which one

 

[Eeyore]

Highlighted is bollocks as I sat with my dad and brother in the stand along with many other Brighton fans.

Oh yes, there would have been Albion in seats. I think it's a wider reference.

But the take away is how memories are so distorted and easily influenced by external factors. It was obviously and amazing day (I love to here folk's stories) and there were around 5,000 Albion fans present on the basis of live reports and the evidence we have.

Although some Sunderland fans seemed to think they had up to 12,000 there which is, quite obviously, absurd.