[Misc] Memories- How A Lot Of What We Remember Is Remarkable- But Often Untrue.

[Eeyore]

A boring Saturday evening tipple thread by a teetotaler…

Memories v Facts

• On Easter Monday 1976 I stood on Hassocks station, aged 7, and heard that Albion were trailing 2-0 against Millwall. I distinctly remember it. I remember asking my Mum what trailing meant and she explained. It is a very clear memory.
• On Easter Monday in 1980, whilst on a bus at Lewes, I remember hearing we were 1-0 down to Bristol City. This is also a clear memory.
• If you asked the results of all the Albion home matches in the 1976/77 season I can remember them, although I didn’t actually attend any of them and only heard things on the radio. I also read The Argus Sports Final
• I distinctly remember going to Tarnerland Nursery with my brother. Yet this is impossible, He is three years older than me, so would never have been in attendance at the same time. Realising this destroyed the memory of a great day as he has since passed away.
• On December 9th 1980 my Dad came into my room and told me John Lennon was dead. I replied ‘Who is John Lennon ?’

However, all of the first three are FALSE memories, yet the fourth is remarkably true. How do I know ? I discovered 40 years of my dad’s diaries after he passed away. The truth is as follows:

• Albion played Millwall on Good Friday 1976. I was at Hassocks on the Easter Monday. The trailing question would have been asked in the kitchen upon return from Queen’s Park on the Friday.
• Impossible, we were at Rottingdean that afternoon
• This is only true now, it is an imputed and false memory from years of studying football statistics. If it is true, how come I don’t know all the away results as well ? Bizarre. There are only three matches I can remember from that year and one includes a false memory about my brother being in hospital that evening. He wasn’t.
• In May 1973 there is a clear entry in which it states my older brother joined me at the nursery for the day. May have been to help settle in for my first full day. Awesome memory, I was only just 4.
• It is quite possible that Dad did break the news early that morning, but the rest I think is now a lie that I made up in my youth and now believe. I cannot see how I would not have heard of the name given that he had been in the top ten the previous two weeks and would also have appeared on TOTP. I was a charts fanatic.

Whilst I discover some incredible passages which do confirm obscure memories, I now wonder how much of my brain lives in a perceived reality of factual and first hand circumstances. ‘Yes, I was there’ becomes ‘Was I actually there ?’ Incredibly the reverse can be true also.

I wonder if others have experienced evidenced based re-alignments of the mind, but also made startling discoveries.

If our first hand brains cannot process things correctly then I can see how quickly third hand information can become first hand and fact. It is almost a personal snapshot of how information is managed and corrupted in wider world. Fascinating, yet quite disturbing.

 

[Norman Potting]

So was John Crumplin not really a "football genius" ?

 

[Seagull27]

I love this sort of stuff, really interesting.

On a similar note, I find a lot of my memories of holidays etc 10+ years ago are from photos that I've seen more recently. Difficult to picture things outside of those photos

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

I never correct anyone on it however when the subject of 70s TV crops up and someone starts on “Captain Pugwash characters” I just want to give them a good slap. (I don’t though, I just try and change the subject)

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I never correct anyone on it however when the subject of 70s TV crops up and someone starts on “Captain Pugwash characters” I just want to give them a good slap. (I don’t though, I just try and change the subject)

Indeed the only one who can come close to sexual was Master Mate certainly not Seaman Stains.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A boring Saturday evening tipple thread by a teetotaler…

Memories v Facts

• On Easter Monday 1976 I stood on Hassocks station, aged 7, and heard that Albion were trailing 2-0 against Millwall. I distinctly remember it. I remember asking my Mum what trailing meant and she explained. It is a very clear memory.
• On Easter Monday in 1980, whilst on a bus at Lewes, I remember hearing we were 1-0 down to Bristol City. This is also a clear memory.
• If you asked the results of all the Albion home matches in the 1976/77 season I can remember them, although I didn’t actually attend any of them and only heard things on the radio. I also read The Argus Sports Final
• I distinctly remember going to Tarnerland Nursery with my brother. Yet this is impossible, He is three years older than me, so would never have been in attendance at the same time. Realising this destroyed the memory of a great day as he has since passed away.
• On December 9th 1980 my Dad came into my room and told me John Lennon was dead. I replied ‘Who is John Lennon ?’

However, all of the first three are FALSE memories, yet the fourth is remarkably true. How do I know ? I discovered 40 years of my dad’s diaries after he passed away. The truth is as follows:

• Albion played Millwall on Good Friday 1976. I was at Hassocks on the Easter Monday. The trailing question would have been asked in the kitchen upon return from Queen’s Park on the Friday.
• Impossible, we were at Rottingdean that afternoon
• This is only true now, it is an imputed and false memory from years of studying football statistics. If it is true, how come I don’t know all the away results as well ? Bizarre. There are only three matches I can remember from that year and one includes a false memory about my brother being in hospital that evening. He wasn’t.
• In May 1973 there is a clear entry in which it states my older brother joined me at the nursery for the day. May have been to help settle in for my first full day. Awesome memory, I was only just 4.
• It is quite possible that Dad did break the news early that morning, but the rest I think is now a lie that I made up in my youth and now believe. I cannot see how I would not have heard of the name given that he had been in the top ten the previous two weeks and would also have appeared on TOTP. I was a charts fanatic.

Whilst I discover some incredible passages which do confirm obscure memories, I now wonder how much of my brain lives in a perceived reality of factual and first hand circumstances. ‘Yes, I was there’ becomes ‘Was I actually there ?’ Incredibly the reverse can be true also.

I wonder if others have experienced evidenced based re-alignments of the mind, but also made startling discoveries.

If our first hand brains cannot process things correctly then I can see how quickly third hand information can become first hand and fact. It is almost a personal snapshot of how information is managed and corrupted in wider world. Fascinating, yet quite disturbing.

Brilliant post!

FWIW, I suspect we have a tendency to create a life narrative that bends and distorts facts and recollections, but that we, as individuals, vary hugely in the extent to which we do this. I mean varying from practically not at all (I have a picture of a stoic, slightly sad person), through to such an extent that people regard you as a fantasist (oddly cheerful confident types - NSC's 'Looney' springs to mind).

Is there a value to this (human traits have been evolving over 100,000s+ of years, after all, and we eventually breed out stuff that works against out chance of reproducing)? Probably. Having a comfortable, even complacent attitude to the past allows us to function more easily, perhaps. For example we have all done bad things, and for some of us, the stark truth of the matter might destroy us. So reconstructing memories to disarm the psychic harm of the truth may have value. But too much ability to do this brings in its own risks..............

And with this skill, perhaps we do the same over less pivotal memories, rather as if the mind does it as a training exercise.

I was always taken by, and amused by my dad's certainty over some rather trivial issues, and it certainly comforted him to have this memory archive. Every time we drove past a house on the Old Shoreham Road, my dad would point out that we nearly moved there in 1963, and that instead Peter O'Sullivan move there because the house was bought for players by The Albion. No idea if this is true, but it's a cracking yarn.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

A boring Saturday evening tipple thread by a teetotaler…

Memories v Facts

• On Easter Monday 1976 I stood on Hassocks station, aged 7, and heard that Albion were trailing 2-0 against Millwall. I distinctly remember it. I remember asking my Mum what trailing meant and she explained. It is a very clear memory.
• On Easter Monday in 1980, whilst on a bus at Lewes, I remember hearing we were 1-0 down to Bristol City. This is also a clear memory.
• If you asked the results of all the Albion home matches in the 1976/77 season I can remember them, although I didn’t actually attend any of them and only heard things on the radio. I also read The Argus Sports Final
• I distinctly remember going to Tarnerland Nursery with my brother. Yet this is impossible, He is three years older than me, so would never have been in attendance at the same time. Realising this destroyed the memory of a great day as he has since passed away.
• On December 9th 1980 my Dad came into my room and told me John Lennon was dead. I replied ‘Who is John Lennon ?’

However, all of the first three are FALSE memories, yet the fourth is remarkably true. How do I know ? I discovered 40 years of my dad’s diaries after he passed away. The truth is as follows:

• Albion played Millwall on Good Friday 1976. I was at Hassocks on the Easter Monday. The trailing question would have been asked in the kitchen upon return from Queen’s Park on the Friday.
• Impossible, we were at Rottingdean that afternoon
• This is only true now, it is an imputed and false memory from years of studying football statistics. If it is true, how come I don’t know all the away results as well ? Bizarre. There are only three matches I can remember from that year and one includes a false memory about my brother being in hospital that evening. He wasn’t.
• In May 1973 there is a clear entry in which it states my older brother joined me at the nursery for the day. May have been to help settle in for my first full day. Awesome memory, I was only just 4.
• It is quite possible that Dad did break the news early that morning, but the rest I think is now a lie that I made up in my youth and now believe. I cannot see how I would not have heard of the name given that he had been in the top ten the previous two weeks and would also have appeared on TOTP. I was a charts fanatic.

Whilst I discover some incredible passages which do confirm obscure memories, I now wonder how much of my brain lives in a perceived reality of factual and first hand circumstances. ‘Yes, I was there’ becomes ‘Was I actually there ?’ Incredibly the reverse can be true also.

I wonder if others have experienced evidenced based re-alignments of the mind, but also made startling discoveries.

If our first hand brains cannot process things correctly then I can see how quickly third hand information can become first hand and fact. It is almost a personal snapshot of how information is managed and corrupted in wider world. Fascinating, yet quite disturbing.

It is indeed something that has been discussed in regard to the use of lie detectors. Many experts believe reaffirming of a distance memory (of a non fact) the person does truly believe the event happened.

The big events that people say they attended but in fact they MAY have watched on TV, they end up confused however to how they attended. Mine is somewhat the inverse of that. I know I attended Live Aid at Wembley. I know who bought the tickets, who I went with. I was an apprentice aircraft engineer with BCal. Marc Holmes got his dad to buy the tickets and 6 of us went by train, I distinctly remember walking around Wembley to the entrance, we sat/stood next to the sound box (or whatever it's called). I lifted the protective rubber matting up and picked a bit of grass, putting it in my pocket. The concert itself I don't have a single memory, haha and no I hadn't even been drinking.

I'm disappointed that of such a huge event, my memory of it is just pointless rubbish.

 

[Eeyore]

For me the biggest Albion delusion, and one which I have often been slated for because I wasn't there, is the below truth.

There were 10,000 Albion fans present at Newcastle in May 1979.

This is false. There were around 5,000 and possibly slightly less than that.

So why do folk, including Mark Lawrenson who was playing say there were ? Well, firstly, they didn't at the time. This is the key statement.

Here are the facts:

1) Local news, including John Vinicombe, reported an Albion group of 5,000 at the time of the event.

2) The Leazes End at Newcastle only held 5,000. Video evidence shows it was covered by folk but certainly not at capacity. There would have been Albion in the seats, but elsewhere in the ground ? As one Newcastle fans says of the event:

'I was at the game, the confusion for Brighton players is that our away strip was blue, so our scarfs were black, white and blue at that time. Scarves were popular. I was in the paddock and they did a walk round the pitch to celebrate and our fans are always sporting, so they got cheered and applauded, with scarves being whirled as we always did end of season. The Brighton support was in the Leazes end and not packed full, but a healthy size of around 4k. There wasn't any Brighton anywhere else, they would have been mullered as I was with nutters in the new stand paddock who had chased them earlier and there for that purpose. The legend is but a myth, you couldn't be an away fan in any other end but your own, in those days, without serious consequences'

Mark Lawrenson dodgy claims of coming to Newcastle United backed by 10,000 Brighton fans

Mark Lawrenson and his unreliable memoirs, remembering coming to Newcastle with an army of over 10,000 Brighton fans.

www.themag.co.uk

3) Sunderland fans have their own claims, there may be some truth, but I would suggest much delusion too:

'Newcastle's fans were outnumbered by the Sunderland contingent cheering the Mags'

'I was there, the ref had a mare and Brighton were 2nd best for long periods. Cant say that I noticed any Mackems in the crowd. Brighton packed the Leazes End'

Newcastle v Brighton 1979

Saturday 5 May 1979: we are away at Wrexham needing to win and hope that one of the 3 teams above us - Brighton, Palace or Stoke - lose for us to go up. Brighton are away at Newcastle and take about 5,000 fans up. Loads of our fans who don’t travel down to Wrexham go to the game at Newcastle...

www.readytogo.net

This one has always been the most perfect study of how memory, sometimes willingly, deceives.

 

[Bodian]

That second Wembley goal by Gordon Smith will live with me forever.

 

[Questions]

That second Wembley goal by Gordon Smith will live with me forever.

Through Baileys legs ?

 

[Bodian]

Through Baileys legs ?

Dinky little Undav-style chip over him.

 

[el punal]

Indeed the only one who can come close to sexual was Master Mate certainly not Seaman Stains.

And what of Roger the cabin boy?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

And what of Roger the cabin boy?

Nope it was Tom the cabin boy. Very clever lad as well.

 

[el punal]

Nope it was Tom the cabin boy. Very clever lad as well.

It was Roger previously but he got transferred to another ship. Apparently he got fed up with all the innuendo - “Are you receiving me, Roger? Over.” and “Roger and out.” All very messy.

 

[Coldeanseagull]

I can't remember what happened five minutes ago....I have no chance of accurately remembering anything from the past!

 

[Seagull58]

For me the biggest Albion delusion, and one which I have often been slated for because I wasn't there, is the below truth.

There were 10,000 Albion fans present at Newcastle in May 1979.

This is false. There were around 5,000 and possibly slightly less than that.

So why do folk, including Mark Lawrenson who was playing say there were ? Well, firstly, they didn't at the time. This is the key statement.

Here are the facts:

1) Local news, including John Vinicombe, reported an Albion group of 5,000 at the time of the event.

2) The Leazes End at Newcastle only held 5,000. Video evidence shows it was covered by folk but certainly not at capacity. There would have been Albion in the seats, but elsewhere in the ground ? As one Newcastle fans says of the event:

'I was at the game, the confusion for Brighton players is that our away strip was blue, so our scarfs were black, white and blue at that time. Scarves were popular. I was in the paddock and they did a walk round the pitch to celebrate and our fans are always sporting, so they got cheered and applauded, with scarves being whirled as we always did end of season. The Brighton support was in the Leazes end and not packed full, but a healthy size of around 4k. There wasn't any Brighton anywhere else, they would have been mullered as I was with nutters in the new stand paddock who had chased them earlier and there for that purpose. The legend is but a myth, you couldn't be an away fan in any other end but your own, in those days, without serious consequences'

Mark Lawrenson dodgy claims of coming to Newcastle United backed by 10,000 Brighton fans

Mark Lawrenson and his unreliable memoirs, remembering coming to Newcastle with an army of over 10,000 Brighton fans.

www.themag.co.uk

3) Sunderland fans have their own claims, there may be some truth, but I would suggest much delusion too:

'Newcastle's fans were outnumbered by the Sunderland contingent cheering the Mags'

'I was there, the ref had a mare and Brighton were 2nd best for long periods. Cant say that I noticed any Mackems in the crowd. Brighton packed the Leazes End'

Newcastle v Brighton 1979

Saturday 5 May 1979: we are away at Wrexham needing to win and hope that one of the 3 teams above us - Brighton, Palace or Stoke - lose for us to go up. Brighton are away at Newcastle and take about 5,000 fans up. Loads of our fans who don’t travel down to Wrexham go to the game at Newcastle...

www.readytogo.net

This one has always been the most perfect study of how memory, sometimes willingly, deceives.

I was in the home end, without a scarf and keeping my mouth shut.

 

[Eeyore]

I was in the home end, without a scarf and keeping my mouth shut.

I'm sure there would have been some, as indeed you were. But the myth tells us there were 5,000+

 

[Jeremiah]

I still maintain that we relegated Palace with a 3-0 win at Selhurst in 1981. Apparently Palace were so bad that season they were already mathematically relegated before this game. However, Its not how I remember it.

 

[Eeyore]

I still maintain that we relegated Palace with a 3-0 win at Selhurst in 1981. Apparently Palace were so bad that season they were already mathematically relegated before this game. However, Its not how I remember it.

I'll work it out for you.

EDIT: Palace were relegated on April 4th 1981 after a 1-0 away defeat at Manchester United, two weeks before our match with them.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

A boring Saturday evening tipple thread by a teetotaler…

Memories v Facts

• On Easter Monday 1976 I stood on Hassocks station, aged 7, and heard that Albion were trailing 2-0 against Millwall. I distinctly remember it. I remember asking my Mum what trailing meant and she explained. It is a very clear memory.
• On Easter Monday in 1980, whilst on a bus at Lewes, I remember hearing we were 1-0 down to Bristol City. This is also a clear memory.
• If you asked the results of all the Albion home matches in the 1976/77 season I can remember them, although I didn’t actually attend any of them and only heard things on the radio. I also read The Argus Sports Final
• I distinctly remember going to Tarnerland Nursery with my brother. Yet this is impossible, He is three years older than me, so would never have been in attendance at the same time. Realising this destroyed the memory of a great day as he has since passed away.
• On December 9th 1980 my Dad came into my room and told me John Lennon was dead. I replied ‘Who is John Lennon ?’

However, all of the first three are FALSE memories, yet the fourth is remarkably true. How do I know ? I discovered 40 years of my dad’s diaries after he passed away. The truth is as follows:

• Albion played Millwall on Good Friday 1976. I was at Hassocks on the Easter Monday. The trailing question would have been asked in the kitchen upon return from Queen’s Park on the Friday.
• Impossible, we were at Rottingdean that afternoon
• This is only true now, it is an imputed and false memory from years of studying football statistics. If it is true, how come I don’t know all the away results as well ? Bizarre. There are only three matches I can remember from that year and one includes a false memory about my brother being in hospital that evening. He wasn’t.
• In May 1973 there is a clear entry in which it states my older brother joined me at the nursery for the day. May have been to help settle in for my first full day. Awesome memory, I was only just 4.
• It is quite possible that Dad did break the news early that morning, but the rest I think is now a lie that I made up in my youth and now believe. I cannot see how I would not have heard of the name given that he had been in the top ten the previous two weeks and would also have appeared on TOTP. I was a charts fanatic.

Whilst I discover some incredible passages which do confirm obscure memories, I now wonder how much of my brain lives in a perceived reality of factual and first hand circumstances. ‘Yes, I was there’ becomes ‘Was I actually there ?’ Incredibly the reverse can be true also.

I wonder if others have experienced evidenced based re-alignments of the mind, but also made startling discoveries.

If our first hand brains cannot process things correctly then I can see how quickly third hand information can become first hand and fact. It is almost a personal snapshot of how information is managed and corrupted in wider world. Fascinating, yet quite disturbing.

Facinating thread. What is for sure is that the human brain is an exceptionally complicated piece of machinery, and it can play tricks on you.

I have vivid memories of both sets of my grandparents. for instance one particular one of my paternal grandma, (Nanny Gick as l used to refer to her, because she walked with a stick . . . l couldn't pronounce the word stick when l was very young), pushing me along the garden path in the family bunglaow in Staines, where l grew up., and l often used to relate that incident in my happy childhood to my parents when l got older, l thought they would like to hear it, and they seemed to.

However in reality, Nanny Gick passed away when l was barely 4 years old, and l can picture how she looked so well. Yet is anyone really capable of remembering anything from so long ago at at such a young age? I think almost certainly not. Was it just me remembering something that l would have liked to have happened? Who knows

Either way thank you for putting some flesh on the bones of the real Brighton Lines, (also seemingly a fan of my beloved 17), l have sometimes wondered about the real person behind the keyboard, and what he might be like. Sorry maybe some things are better left to the imagination, huh?