[Politics] Matt Hancock/Government Break the Law

[Hastings gull]

Hancock’s defence is a disgrace. To play the pity card is unacceptable. His team were handing out contracts to chums with no track record of sourcing the necessary supplies. Some people have pocketed millions of our money of the back of this shitshow. The vaccination programme may be going well now but never forget the awful way this pandemic was handled from the start. From missed COBRA meetings to flip flopping on decisions, late decisions, not holding officials to account and what can only be described as fraud.

We may be about to win the war under this administration, but let’s hope the people remember everything that has happened to them stretching back to Cameron and May’s disastrous austerity measures and kick them out.


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With respect, this seems like all the others who know best and from a position of no knowledge, profess to know it all. So, initially he missed COBRA meetings -do you know what the agenda was and whether he was needed, what he might have been doing instead, whether he was involved by video link - please no waffle- either you are able to speak with authority on what you claim to be a failure, or you know nothing at all, and just seize on something to indulge your prejuduce.

If and it is big IF, the government turned to their mates, irrespective, then that is wrong, as we all know. But do you know about the standard of the PPE equipment that was offered by others? You say that the mates' firms involved had no experience of producing PPE to the required amount and standard, but then did anyone? Have we had such a pandemic before? My wife's friend's husband offered help way back during the first wave, and was angry that he did not hear anything from the government, understandably, and I recall seeing on the telly similar complaints. It was only later that he told us, that his firm would not have been able to prioduce to the quality that was demanded.
Before you and others rant, I am NOT defending anything, just simply saying -by all means criticise but take care not to just rant when you do not necessarily know the full story and have little real appreciation of the extreme difficulties that the government must have faced, not that that explains fraud and incompetence, if that is indeed what it was.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

With respect, this seems like all the others who know best and from a position of no knowledge, profess to know it all. So, initially he missed COBRA meetings -do you know what the agenda was and whether he was needed, what he might have been doing instead, whether he was involved by video link - please no waffle- either you are able to speak with authority on what you claim to be a failure, or you know nothing at all, and just seize on something to indulge your prejuduce.

If and it is big IF, the government turned to their mates, irrespective, then that is wrong, as we all know. But do you know about the standard of the PPE equipment that was offered by others? You say that the mates' firms involved had no experience of producing PPE to the required amount and standard, but then did anyone? Have we had such a pandemic before? My wife's friend's husband offered help way back during the first wave, and was angry that he did not hear anything from the government, understandably, and I recall seeing on the telly similar complaints. It was only later that he told us, that his firm would not have been able to prioduce to the quality that was demanded.
Before you and others rant, I am NOT defending anything, just simply saying -by all means criticise but take care not to just rant when you do not necessarily know the full story and have little real appreciation of the extreme difficulties that the government must have faced, not that that explains fraud and incompetence, if that is indeed what it was.

The High Court ruled it was unlawful. By real judges and everything. The High Court is the highest authority of law in the land, and nobody is above the law.

 

[Hastings gull]

The High Court ruled it was unlawful. By real judges and everything. The High Court is the highest authority of law in the land, and nobody is above the law.

Yes, I fully realise that, and as you say nobody is above the law. But that they didn't go through the correct (and possibly at the time, time-consuming) process doesn't necessarily mean that there was fraud. There was understandable panic to get this stuff bought, as was the case in other countries, so the temptation must have been incredible to cut corners -as it has turned out, this has been unlawful. Others are trying to turn their propaganda in the direction of accusing the government of giving their mates back-handers, and whist that might be true, no one as yet been able to fully state that a preferred competitor with the correct equipment at a better price for taxpayers was sidelined to help a mate offering a lesser service. As I recall, the government stated that they had over 9000 offers of help - to have sifted through all of those applications to ascertain whether they were all appropriate and value for taxpayer's money must have been a mammoth task, and it is quite posible that in the rush, the idea of waiting for quotes from several firms may well have been deemed as unfeasable. Not excusing something that is unlawful at all, just that at a time of genuine panic, these things happen.

 

[portslade seagull]

Yes, I fully realise that, and as you say nobody is above the law. But that they didn't go through the correct (and possibly at the time, time-consuming) process doesn't necessarily mean that there was fraud. There was understandable panic to get this stuff bought, as was the case in other countries, so the temptation must have been incredible to cut corners -as it has turned out, this has been unlawful. Others are trying to turn their propaganda in the direction of accusing the government of giving their mates back-handers, and whist that might be true, no one as yet been able to fully state that a preferred competitor with the correct equipment at a better price for taxpayers was sidelined to help a mate offering a lesser service. As I recall, the government stated that they had over 9000 offers of help - to have sifted through all of those applications to ascertain whether they were all appropriate and value for taxpayer's money must have been a mammoth task, and it is quite posible that in the rush, the idea of waiting for quotes from several firms may well have been deemed as unfeasable. Not excusing something that is unlawful at all, just that at a time of genuine panic, these things happen.

All the whingers are the same ones who were panning them for not having the PPE in the 1st place. The fact that all governments were in the same position is neither here of there. They could have sifted all the requests and maybe months later placed the orders rather like the EU with the vaccinations now being months behind.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

You would want a minister to stay in place, that you viewed as corrupt and probably incompetent during a pandemic just so you could have a potential electoral advantage ... shameful!





(Ever thought of starting a career in politics? )

It is clear though Starmer is not calling for Hankock to resign now, right at this moment, for the safety of the speed of the rollout of the vaccine but make no mistake if The Health Secretary has acted unlawfully, which has been proved by a court of Law and the evidence of transparency has been compromised for fear of breaking that law Hancock is a dead man walking.....not if he should go but when. I very much suspect Karmer knows that Hankock will not be in the same political job before an election as he will either resign or more likely sacked.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Hancock’s defence is a disgrace. To play the pity card is unacceptable. His team were handing out contracts to chums with no track record of sourcing the necessary supplies. Some people have pocketed millions of our money of the back of this shitshow. The vaccination programme may be going well now but never forget the awful way this pandemic was handled from the start. From missed COBRA meetings to flip flopping on decisions, late decisions, not holding officials to account and what can only be described as fraud.

We may be about to win the war under this administration, but let’s hope the people remember everything that has happened to them stretching back to Cameron and May’s disastrous austerity measures and kick them out.


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The High Court didn’t actually rule on any of those things though. It was about breaking the 30 day transparency rule. Most of the posts on this thread are not about the legal ruling.

 

[Sorrel]

The High Court didn’t actually rule on any of those things though. It was about breaking the 30 day transparency rule. Most of the posts on this thread are not about the legal ruling.

Yes, it does seem rather like people shouted about the judgement without reading it. The problem in this case is that contracts were put on a website a few days late, not about what the contract said.

Of course the contracts may have not followed the correct process, but the judgement gave no opinion on that.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

Yes, I fully realise that, and as you say nobody is above the law. But that they didn't go through the correct (and possibly at the time, time-consuming) process doesn't necessarily mean that there was fraud. There was understandable panic to get this stuff bought, as was the case in other countries, so the temptation must have been incredible to cut corners -as it has turned out, this has been unlawful. Others are trying to turn their propaganda in the direction of accusing the government of giving their mates back-handers, and whist that might be true, no one as yet been able to fully state that a preferred competitor with the correct equipment at a better price for taxpayers was sidelined to help a mate offering a lesser service. As I recall, the government stated that they had over 9000 offers of help - to have sifted through all of those applications to ascertain whether they were all appropriate and value for taxpayer's money must have been a mammoth task, and it is quite posible that in the rush, the idea of waiting for quotes from several firms may well have been deemed as unfeasable. Not excusing something that is unlawful at all, just that at a time of genuine panic, these things happen.

This is of course could be the case in its entirety but why was there not any statements from the government at the time explaining why contracts were awarded to certain companies that would result in mass profiteering (if this is true) because of the limitations of the health department timescale in securing adequate PPE equipment?
It surely is not inconceivable to act within the law and be transparent to why these companies were used because of the pressures the pandemic had caused in making speed a priority.

 

[GT49er]

Yes, it does seem rather like people shouted about the judgement without reading it. The problem in this case is that contracts were put on a website a few days late, not about what the contract said.

Of course the contracts may have not followed the correct process, but the judgement gave no opinion on that.

Exactly - the bottom line would appear to be that the only 'law breaking' is not getting the paperwork done on time. There may have been some cronyism in handing out the contracts - that will be for future enquiries to decide. There could be an argument, of course, as far as testing and tracking was concerned, that the NHS at the time had more than enough to deal with!
The idea may have been fine, even if the execution (the awarding of contracts to the wrong people at the wrong price) was inept.

 

[Hastings gull]

This is of course could be the case in its entirety but why was there not any statements from the government at the time explaining why contracts were awarded to certain companies that would result in mass profiteering (if this is true) because of the limitations of the health department timescale in securing adequate PPE equipment?
It surely is not inconceivable to act within the law and be transparent to why these companies were used because of the pressures the pandemic had caused in making speed a priority.

I really don't know but perhaps they did not feel it was necessary if there were no cases of mass profiteering, as you put it, and you do of course speculate that this might have been the case. Given the rush at the time, perhaps they simply felt that going into why other companies were not chosen was hardly a good use of time -or, possibly, there was something to hide! I stress that I don't know but one thing I am sure of - nor does anyone else on here boldly talking of fraud or mates' profits!

 

[Motogull]

Any one of Johnson's cabinet members: "Sorry, but I'm in a bit of lumber because ..."

Johnson in reply: "Whoops a daisy. Something in latin. Carry on."

 

[dejavuatbtn]

There’s a lot of finger wagging on here, and yes, I disagree with the way many of these contracts and jobs for the boys and girls were handed out, and I hope that they all get their cumuppunce.
What p’s me off more than anything though is the number of ordinary people who still don’t get it and ignore the restrictions, thinking “I’m only doing this” or “only doing that”. If everyone had been more careful the government would have far less to be concerned about.
There are a lot of selfish b******ds out there who aren’t politicians.

 

[Uncle C]

After watching the hapless Marr my piss is boiling.
I can't stand to look at Hancocks face anymore, what a crock of shit that interview was and this country is going to let them all off the hook because when we are all back drinking, eating and shopping nobody will give a shit about what happened and how it was done, and they know it, that is why they are saying it will be discussed later.
His argument may have held some water if the PPE was of a decent standard and they got hold of enough to give some to care home workers and others.
I want these criminals held to account not least for the thousands of unnecessary deaths.

o

Let me take a wild guess here, that you vote Labour.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes, I fully realise that, and as you say nobody is above the law. But that they didn't go through the correct (and possibly at the time, time-consuming) process doesn't necessarily mean that there was fraud. There was understandable panic to get this stuff bought, as was the case in other countries, so the temptation must have been incredible to cut corners -as it has turned out, this has been unlawful. Others are trying to turn their propaganda in the direction of accusing the government of giving their mates back-handers, and whist that might be true, no one as yet been able to fully state that a preferred competitor with the correct equipment at a better price for taxpayers was sidelined to help a mate offering a lesser service. As I recall, the government stated that they had over 9000 offers of help - to have sifted through all of those applications to ascertain whether they were all appropriate and value for taxpayer's money must have been a mammoth task, and it is quite posible that in the rush, the idea of waiting for quotes from several firms may well have been deemed as unfeasable. Not excusing something that is unlawful at all, just that at a time of genuine panic, these things happen.

Why did he spend £207,000 of taxpayers money trying to defend it?

 

[Hugo Rune]

Hancock’s defence is a disgrace. To play the pity card is unacceptable. His team were handing out contracts to chums with no track record of sourcing the necessary supplies. Some people have pocketed millions of our money of the back of this shitshow.

This is the incident I found most shocking:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-supplies-won-Covid-testing-kit-contract.html

This one was not far behind.

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/02/10/friend-of-matt-hancock-wins-14-4-million-ppe-contract/

 

[Pavilionaire]

If Thatcher or Major were in charge I'm sure one or two Cabinet ministers would have been forced to resign.

Ministers used to.fal on thier sword for getting their secretary up the duff. The tipping poing was getting found out. Now as the likes of Jenrick, Hancock, Patel and Cummings have shown you can flout the rules.with impunity.

 

[T.G]

It's been widely covered.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lawfully-failed-publish-contract-details.html

Hardly widely !!! Barely seen anything on the news apart from a strapline. If this was Corbyn it would be blaring from all stations and papers!!!

 

[*Gullsworth*]

I really don't know but perhaps they did not feel it was necessary if there were no cases of mass profiteering, as you put it, and you do of course speculate that this might have been the case. Given the rush at the time, perhaps they simply felt that going into why other companies were not chosen was hardly a good use of time -or, possibly, there was something to hide! I stress that I don't know but one thing I am sure of - nor does anyone else on here boldly talking of fraud or mates' profits!

You are right of course on speculation of fraud and mates 'profits' but what is clear is that Hancock broke the law and probably new he was at the time but he waits for a high court judgement to then roll out his excuses for why he failed to declare in the lawful timescale that transparency is required. This in itself smells of incompetence at least and maybe something more corrupt.

 

[Chicken Run]

Hardly widely !!! Barely seen anything on the news apart from a strapline. If this was Corbyn it would be blaring from all stations and papers!!!

Corbyn was a **** though.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

o

Let me take a wild guess here, that you vote Labour.

Your point being? Is no one allowed to keep politicians to account unless they are of course nasty, left wing labour politicians? Only asking for a friend