[Albion] Mats Wieffer SINGS on 5 year contract

[Southern Scouse]

Why are we putting the Dutch number one as our reserve keeper?

 

[Insel affe]

Why are we putting the Dutch number one as our reserve keeper?

Does it matter now, the man who did has collected all the toys he threw out of his pram and mopped off into the sunset.
He will be number one next year, do not worry about that.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

That experiment ended with a 3-0 defeat. RDZ decided to play every defender we had in the squad for some reason? Was he trying to make a point?

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I think we were just too preoccupied with the up coming Roma match and Gilmour was suspended because of the red card, which he picked up against Everton.

 

[Baldseagull]

Hans is eeevil.

 

[Zeberdi]

JPvH played that role at Fulham (DCM).

Not really. JP played a DCM pivot in a tight positional DCM role (similar to Weiffer’s role at Feyenoord but not a ‘libero’/CB/DCM. Webster was in a back 3, yes, but as a dedicated central CB. In Hürzeler’s startup, the CB is the DCM out of possession.

It was a slightly different system that day against Fulham to either Slot’s at Feyenoord (where he plays 4-2-3-1) or Hürzeler’s 3-4-3 but it was a tweak RDZ’s system - maybe in anticipation of Fulham being a team that wouldn’t take the bait to press high but would sit in a low block and hit us on the counterattacks? - If his aim was to play an intense press against Fulham but to fall into a high 5 man block (with VH and Baleba dropping back) if we lost possession (which is what Hürzeler does btw to defend against counterattacks ) then it might have worked if we knew what we were doing - but that’s the problem with rigid positional systems like De Zerbi ball, players get so wedded to a position and which players are where at any given time, when you try and mix it up/change it up, they can look like headless chickens.

 

[severnside gull]

This one is going to happen isn’t it.

Paid for by Gross and Undav departures

 

[Mancgull]

This one is going to happen isn’t it.

Paid for by Gross and Undav departures

I’d like to think it will be paid for by previous departures with Undav’s ‘departure’ ( if it happens’ funding a move for another attacker such as Summerville.

 

[Baldseagull]

Not really. JP played a DCM pivot in a tight positional DCM role (similar to Weiffer’s role at Feyenoord but not a ‘libero’/CB/DCM. Webster was in a back 3, yes, but as a dedicated central CB. In Hürzeler’s startup, the CB is the DCM out of possession.

It was a slightly different system that day against Fulham to either Slot’s at Feyenoord (where he plays 4-2-3-1) or Hürzeler’s 3-4-3 but it was a tweak RDZ’s system - maybe in anticipation of Fulham being a team that wouldn’t take the bait to press high but would sit in a low block and hit us on the counterattacks? - If his aim was to play an intense press against Fulham but to fall into a high 5 man block (with VH and Baleba dropping back) if we lost possession (which is what Hürzeler does btw to defend against counterattacks ) then it might have worked if we knew what we were doing - but that’s the problem with rigid positional systems like De Zerbi ball, players get so wedded to a position and which players are where at any given time, when you try and mix it up/change it up, they can look like headless chickens.

I think his point was that we have CBs that can step into midfield, if required, not that we have tried the new Kings tactics already.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think this CB/CDM position is facinating but I think the ‘CB’ part of it is being a little overplayed by people.

My view of the Hürzeler tactics is that in possession, the allocated player clearly jumps out of defence into CDM as a deep lying playmaker. In front of him, everyone is on the move finding space and swapping positions. Wing backs pile forward, wings tuck in to the centre, one midfield joins the attack, the other sits in the hole. This is where Mats Wieffer or someone with his passing abilities would excel. I don’t think this role requires the player to dribble or even carry the ball too far forwards.

So then we look to defence. Hürzeler is seemingly more concerned about this than RDZ ever was or ever will be. Wieffer has been identified at having great positioning and aerial skills. He is going to be a monster defending set-pieces in the air. Hopefully better than either Webster or Igor. With Dunk and Van Hecke there to instruct him, I think he’ll thrive when we are trying to stop high balls coming in.

There is then this weakness with late tackles and a lack of pace. I think this is genuine and needs working on but I believe that Hürzeler is not keen (like RDZ) for his two centre backs to bomb forward meaning the likes of Dunk and Van Hecke should be there to cover if Wieffer fails. The rest of the team can help cover the defensive shortfalls. What is more important is the deep lying playmaker ability. Short fast and accurate passes. This is where this Wieffer apparently excels.

That's exactly how I understand it too. The fact that the middle CB at SP was a converted DCM very much fits into your analysis too and, yes, that means that, for the role DCM attributes are key. I think you're also spot on about heading being key for such a player not only so this can be used when we move into a defensive mode and the middle CB becomes a defender, and also set pieces at both ends which we know is key to FH.
Also agree that we won't see Dunk in the inside right position chasing the CF as we saw under RDZ. FH plays with a far more structured defensive formation and, when the oppo have the ball, the team tends to get back into a structure and only start pressing from the half way line.

 

[um bongo molongo]

That experiment ended with a 3-0 defeat. RDZ decided to play every defender we had in the squad for some reason? Was he trying to make a point?

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What a bizarre selection that was. What did we ever see in him?!

 

[nwgull]

Why are we putting the Dutch number one as our reserve keeper?

This was a question that was asked by a large proportion of our fanbase an hour before KO every other week last season.

 

[Zeberdi]

I think his point was that we have CBs that can step into midfield, if required, not that we have tried the new Kings tactics already.

Yeah, I see that now but it wasn’t clear because @Machiavelli and I ( @Machiavelli was replying to a question that was meant for me) had been specifically referring to the Hürzeler CB/CDM role.

Btw - We have actually tried something very similar once or twice under RDZ however with Baleba in CDM who dropped back into a CB position off the ball in a type of sweeper/libero role - it actually suited him to sit back and face play tbh.

Back on Weiffer, as has been said already by me and others, his aerial abilities, one-touch passing and aggressive energy will improve the squad’s defensive capabilities one way or another, wherever he plays, at the moment I prefer him in partnership with WBG because that’s the training he’d be coming in with - if he can cope with the pace and intensity of the EPL and be more disciplined in his tackling.

It’s strange how yet another thread has turned into a RDZ bash

 

[JJ McClure]

Btw - We have actually tried something very similar once or twice under RDZ however with Baleba in CDM who dropped back into a CB position off the ball in a type of sweeper/libero role - it actually suited him to sit back and face play tbh.

Yeah, can't remember the exact game that was but recall it seemed to work well and Baleba looked really good in that role

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

This was a question that was asked by a large proportion of our fanbase an hour before KO every other week last season.

Not wanting to derail this thread, but this has been raised several times and needs addressing.


Bart only had 1500 minutes of senior football before we bought him. He was a 20 year old novice moving to the most physical league in the world, playing in a position where he was going to be exposed to direct targeting by some absolute monsters.

Roberto deliberately eased him in gently, bringing him in and out of the team as he saw wise, allowing Bart to build confidence and learn his trade gradually.

The fact that he is now Netherlands number one is testament to the careful handling by Roberto, not a negative to beat him with.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Not wanting to derail this thread, but this has been raised several times and needs addressing.


Bart only had 1500 minutes of senior football before we bought him. He was a 20 year old novice moving to the most physical league in the world, playing in a position where he was going to be exposed to direct targeting by some absolute monsters.

Roberto deliberately eased him in gently, bringing him in and out of the team as he saw wise, allowing Bart to build confidence and learn his trade gradually.

The fact that he is now Netherlands number one is testament to the careful handling by Roberto, not a negative to beat him with.

Completely agree with this. Bart's performances are now a vindication of his handling by Roberto imo.

 

[Cordwainer]

Yeah, can't remember the exact game that was but recall it seemed to work well and Baleba looked really good in that role

Until he matures and with further experience of a more out and out midfield role, Baleba currently seems to play best when everything is in front of him.

 

[nwgull]

Not wanting to derail this thread, but this has been raised several times and needs addressing.


Bart only had 1500 minutes of senior football before we bought him. He was a 20 year old novice moving to the most physical league in the world, playing in a position where he was going to be exposed to direct targeting by some absolute monsters.

Roberto deliberately eased him in gently, bringing him in and out of the team as he saw wise, allowing Bart to build confidence and learn his trade gradually.

The fact that he is now Netherlands number one is testament to the careful handling by Roberto, not a negative to beat him with.

I think RDZ was just stubborn on this matter. Bart was clearly a far better keeper than Steele and he got his first international cap months before he even signed for us. Steele at this point had played 16 PL games in his entire career.

If anything, the constant rotation did him more harm than good - it probably harmed both keepers. The reason we send keepers like Beadle and Rushworth out on loan is so that they get week-by-week experience. It's quite likely a condition of their loans that they play a certain percentage.

Also, what was the point in bringing back Steele for the Man Utd game? It was just a bizarre decision and he certainly didn't need protecting from the big bad boys of the PL.

 

[AstroSloth]

Suarez is the only player on that list who for me really had a sustained career at the top level.

De Jong is also absolute quality tbf. I'd also say Van Nistelrooy had an okay career.

As well as that De Ligt isn't doing bad for himself.

Martinez is very good but injured.

Kudus and Alvarez have had very good seasons for West Ham, Timber got injured for the season so hard to judge but was looking good in pre season.

Haller got cancer after a promising start and Malen is developing for Dortmund.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

That experiment ended with a 3-0 defeat. RDZ decided to play every defender we had in the squad for some reason? Was he trying to make a point?

View attachment 184647

But from memory JPvH was ok in a poor performance

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

That was a car crash

The performance was as per my other post not sure about JPvH specifically