Mark Duggan "Lawfully Killed" According to Jurors

[beorhthelm]

well a chap on the TV presumably from the family just said "no peace" mean people on the streets. why are the police not arresting for incitment? too soft.

 

[1066familyman]

Is it allowed for us to think both that Duggan was a scumbag and also that the OB screwed up both the hard stop and the aftermath ?

Nope, that isn't allowed. Some people start to get very confused when you go and do things like that.

 

[Dandyman]

Nope, that isn't allowed. Some people start to get very confused when you go and do things like that.

Sorry, should have remembered the audience. Shades of grey are not allowed.

 

[Southern Toon]

Long campaign by Duggan supporters for a Judicial review, resulting in an overturned verdict in the interests of community relations. Followed by a royal pardon & a Posthumous knighthood, bet in play NOW.

 

[mooey]

i like how the rightous amongst forget this was a fairly nasty person, doing alot of naughty, they didnt just pull over some random and shoot them.

Could nt agree more this guy was carrying a gun he has probably threatened someone with it.Its like people who pull knives should be ready to take one.The family shoud face facts that he was nt Mother Teresa.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Long campaign by Duggan supporters for a Judicial review, resulting in an overturned verdict in the interests of community relations. Followed by a royal pardon & a Posthumous knighthood, bet in play NOW.

#grabs coat, hopes betfair are still open#

 

[User removed 4]

Another police cover up I bet, on what grounds did they find it 'lawful' I wonder? because they are the Police? Oh that's alright then.

From the court summary:

Jury was asked: Did Mr Duggan have the gun with him in the taxi immediately before the stop? All 10 jury members said yes.

So before he gets turned into a martyr, if he was such a good, gentle family man, what was he doing in a taxi with a gun?

 

[Dan Aitch]

what was he doing in a taxi with a gun?

He'd have been late if he'd got the bus.

 

[Hamilton]

From the court summary:

Jury was asked: Did Mr Duggan have the gun with him in the taxi immediately before the stop? All 10 jury members said yes.

So before he gets turned into a martyr, if he was such a good, gentle family man, what was he doing in a taxi with a gun?

He was looking after it for his dear old nan. He was a lovely lad. Just misunderstood.

 

[The Fifth Column]

It seems some posters on this thread with the benefit of hindsight, plenty of time and no policing experience whatsoever are now suddenly experts on when someone should or shouldn't be shot! The officers knew he had a gun on him in the car and he resisted when the car was stopped and made movements with his hands towards his jacket pockets by all accounts which the officers perceived as him going for a weapon, the officers did not know at that point whether he was armed or not or whether he had discarded the gun. They had split seconds to make decisions and he was unfortunately shot and killed but HE put himself in that situation and so I have little sympathy with what happened to him. I suspect if I had been one of those officers in that same situation and with their training I would have shot him too, if you believe you wouldn't I suspect you would be a very dead police officer fairly quickly. The fella had a gun on him FFS it matters not whether he had it on him when he was shot, the officers didn't know and made a judgement call that had a tragic outcome. As for his family all I see there is a poor feral family looking for someone to blame and a possible compo payout, cynical view I know but that's what I see.

 

[theboybilly]

It seems some posters on this thread with the benefit of hindsight, plenty of time and no policing experience whatsoever are now suddenly experts on when someone should or shouldn't be shot! The officers knew he had a gun on him in the car and he resisted when the car was stopped and made movements with his hands towards his jacket pockets by all accounts which the officers perceived as him going for a weapon, the officers did not know at that point whether he was armed or not or whether he had discarded the gun. They had split seconds to make decisions and he was unfortunately shot and killed but HE put himself in that situation and so I have little sympathy with what happened to him. I suspect if I had been one of those officers in that same situation and with their training I would have shot him too, if you believe you wouldn't I suspect you would be a very dead police officer fairly quickly. The fella had a gun on him FFS it matters not whether he had it on him when he was shot, the officers didn't know and made a judgement call that had a tragic outcome. As for his family all I see there is a poor feral family looking for someone to blame and a possible compo payout, cynical view I know but that's what I see.

This is my view too. And if a little survey was done of the family and supporters of Mark Duggan coming out of the court I wouldn't mind wagering that there wasn't much honest income generated from the lot of them.

 

[somerset]

Having thought about it I guess it is a short list.

I think the problem is that in a few high profile cases the Police always seem to back each other up and get away with it as if the courts are heavily weighted in their favour.

Ian Tomlinson springs to mind, when the whole thing was on camera and it was just an unprovked attack by a thug in uniform but the court still let him off.

That was a strange one, very odd decision.

 

[mwrpoole]

It might be worth reading this if you're interested in the jury's deliberations:

http://dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/docs/Jurys_Determination_and_Conclusion.pdf

 

[Dandyman]

It might be worth reading this if you're interested in the jury's deliberations:

http://dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/docs/Jurys_Determination_and_Conclusion.pdf

Interesting - tends to support the view of Police incompetence throughout the whole saga.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

But with live ammunition ? Why couldnt a taser have been used ?

A Taser has a maximum range of 35 feet, that's just a bit over 10 meters, or from the penalty spot to the goal line in football speak.

I've not read any of the case so I have no idea from what distance the lethal shots were made.

Personally, I wouldn't want to risk getting that close to this fella on the guess that he DIDN'T now have a firearm. And if I thought I saw something that resembled a firearm ....

Maybe I'm chicken? Or maybe I'm sensible?

Pop, pop, pop! Risk over .....

 

[janee]

Saw the family on the channel 4 news stating that he was no angel but with his hands up and no gun he should have been arrested and charged and brought to trial. Like any of us should expect to be if we have done wrong. The police also lied and leaked lies to the press which is all in the jury's deliberations.

I can't agree with people on here saying if you commit a crime you should expect to be shot dead.

 

[Eggmundo]

So because a Jury has decided it - its 100% correct ? No, it isnt. I respect that fact a civil jury has come to that decision, but it isnt the correct decision.

Maybe the country should run all legal verdicts by you in the future, just in case they're wrong?

You can't say one way or the other, you weren't there and you weren't on the jury enabling you to hear all the evidence.

 

[Caveman]

Saw the family on the channel 4 news stating that he was no angel but with his hands up and no gun he should have been arrested and charged and brought to trial. Like any of us should expect to be if we have done wrong. The police also lied and leaked lies to the press which is all in the jury's deliberations.

I can't agree with people on here saying if you commit a crime you should expect to be shot dead.

Carrying a gun or a knife isnt something that is going to win you many sympathisers is it.

 

[drew]

Saw the family on the channel 4 news stating that he was no angel but with his hands up and no gun he should have been arrested and charged and brought to trial. Like any of us should expect to be if we have done wrong. The police also lied and leaked lies to the press which is all in the jury's deliberations.

I can't agree with people on here saying if you commit a crime you should expect to be shot dead.

Do you accept that he had a gun when he was in the mini cab?

 

[drew]

Saw the family on the channel 4 news stating that he was no angel but with his hands up and no gun he should have been arrested and charged and brought to trial. Like any of us should expect to be if we have done wrong. The police also lied and leaked lies to the press which is all in the jury's deliberations.

I can't agree with people on here saying if you commit a crime you should expect to be shot dead.

Nobody as far as I can see is saying that if you commit a crime you should expect to be shot dead. But if you break the law then that may be a consequence.