[News] Margaret Thatcher Statue

[Seasidesage]

I particularly like how they've cut their tree to match the slope of her shoulders. Either that or it's ****ing windy.

I thought she'd grown a pony tail?

 

[NooBHA]

I particularly like how they've cut their tree to match the slope of her shoulders. Either that or it's ****ing windy.

Who builds their home that close to a tree or plants a tree that close to their house. Guaranteed one of them will need to come down in the future

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I hate Thatcher as the person who destroyed the very fabric of society as I knew it growing up and as the architect of the selfish less tolerant world in which we live. I also as the descendant of Irish Catholics hate Oliver Cromwell for the things that he did. However, do I have an objection to either having statues? No, its my opinion, others are available and to attempt to airbrush history by removing all reference to previous historical characters is both stupid and demeaning of society as it is today. Every historical character is a product of their own era and you would hope that another Thatcher emerging now would not get elected although given who has she probably would.

'Progress' does not follow a linear path, not everything she did was wrong and if the people of Grantham elect a council who want to waste ratepayers money on a statue that is for the voters of Grantham to take up at the next opportunity...

Destroying the images of those you disagree with is only a small step from destroying those you disagree with. The Nazi's didn't jump straight to murdering Jews they burnt books and destroyed businesses etc first. Worrying times...

I agree with you, albeit, there are some exceptions; it isn't a black and white issue. I am not in favour of all and every statue, or the removal of all and every statue. Removing statues of old slave owners who nobody reveres, like Colston, (and storing the staue in a warehouse) is fine by me. Putting up a statue of Thatcher in Grantham, and protecting against its vandalism, is also fine by me. Keeping a statue of Churchill is fine by me. Not putting up a statue of Bernard Manning is also fine by me.

Also, I don't think that declining to put up a new statue of General Haig represents a rewriting of history, although I agree that the burning of books, including those with which I have issues such as the holy bible, the quran, mein kampf, is reprehensible. I like books. Perhaps I'm a hypocrite. Albeit books are kept in libraries, not on plinths in the town centre.

 

[Palacefinder General]

I agree with you, albeit, there are some exceptions; it isn't a black and white issue. I am not in favour of all and every statue, or the removal of all and every statue. Removing statues of old slave owners who nobody reveres, like Colston, (and storing the staue in a warehouse) is fine by me. Putting up a statue of Thatcher in Grantham, and protecting against its vandalism, is also fine by me. Keeping a statue of Churchill is fine by me. Not putting up a statue of Bernard Manning is also fine by me.

Also, I don't think that declining to put up a new statue of General Haig represents a rewriting of history, although I agree that the burning of books, including those with which I have issues such as the holy bible, the quran, mein kampf, is reprehensible. I like books. Perhaps I'm a hypocrite. Albeit books are kept in libraries, not on plinths in the town centre.

When did you last use your local lending library, H?

 

[Seasidesage]

I agree with you, albeit, there are some exceptions; it isn't a black and white issue. I am not in favour of all and every statue, or the removal of all and every statue. Removing statues of old slave owners who nobody reveres, like Colston, (and storing the staue in a warehouse) is fine by me. Putting up a statue of Thatcher in Grantham, and protecting against its vandalism, is also fine by me. Keeping a statue of Churchill is fine by me. Not putting up a statue of Bernard Manning is also fine by me.

Also, I don't think that declining to put up a new statue of General Haig represents a rewriting of history, although I agree that the burning of books, including those with which I have issues such as the holy bible, the quran, mein kampf, is reprehensible. I like books. Perhaps I'm a hypocrite. Albeit books are kept in libraries, not on plinths in the town centre.

I was hoping my comments were wooly enough to convey the same unease. This is the Greyest of Grey areas, my point was more the worry that globally people seem incapable of accepting another view or that the decisions made in a snapshot in history are not necessarily the ones that would be made now. Colston I get although throwing the statue in the Avon is going too far for me. Cecil Rhodes? More difficult although he clearly is an architect of some of Africa's problems now. Not sure there were a lot of street demonstrations against Imperialism at the time?

Captain Cook? Julius Caesar? Christopher Columbus? There are a lot of historical figures who judged through a 21st century lens don't come out of it too well. Where if anywhere is a line to be drawn?

 

[London Irish]

Not everyone agreed with her , although lots of people did, but she didn’t kill anyone

Eh? She started a pointless war to get re-elected when we were previously in the process of negotiating away sovereignty. That killed a thousand people.

 

[Danny Wilson Said]

I was hoping my comments were wooly enough to convey the same unease. This is the Greyest of Grey areas, my point was more the worry that globally people seem incapable of accepting another view or that the decisions made in a snapshot in history are not necessarily the ones that would be made now. Colston I get although throwing the statue in the Avon is going too far for me. Cecil Rhodes? More difficult although he clearly is an architect of some of Africa's problems now. Not sure there were a lot of street demonstrations against Imperialism at the time?

Captain Cook? Julius Caesar? Christopher Columbus? There are a lot of historical figures who judged through a 21st century lens don't come out of it too well. Where if anywhere is a line to be drawn?

Rhodes is a tricky one, especially in Oxford with the Rhodes scholars. One of the most vocal supporters of removing the Rhodes statue from Oxford High Street was a Rhodes Scholar himself, so would have accepted money from the Rhodes foundation to study there. fair enough, I suppose, if Rhodes made the money to endow his scholarships from exploiting black Africans.

But if I've understood correctly, he wasn't the sort of racist who believed that native Africans were inferior to white people, but rather the sort who regarded them as uncivilised but capable of becoming the equal of whites eventually. And he made scholarships available to black students.

Incidentally, I was told by an Oxford resident that the statue was in a prominent position so that any black person on the top deck of a bus would have it in his or her face when it stopped outside Oriel College. Last time I was in Oxford I checked this out and it was bullsh*t, unless they have quadruple-decker buses, and there isn't a bus stop there anyway. Most people wouldn't notice the statue unless it was pointed out to them.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Thatcher was a deliberately divisive figure who revelled in, and actively sought, conflict.

Putting up a statue of her and then having people throw eggs at it seems about right to me as a reflection on her life.

Was she? Or perhaps a conviction politician. Regardless, three times elected as PM for the UK

 

[GT49er]

Eh? She started a pointless war to get re-elected when we were previously in the process of negotiating away sovereignty. That killed a thousand people.

Negotiating my a**e! What happened was that Sir John Nott-a-very-good-Defence-Secretary decided to scrap HMS Endurance, the Royal Navy's Antarctic patrol boat that protected the Falklands to save some money to spend on his lovely nuclear deterrents. General Galtieri, desperate to quell the unrest against his government in Argentina used his power of wishful thinking to assume this was an indication that the UK wouldn't exactly bust a gut to protect the rights of the Falkland islanders. So, for political gain, he ordered the invasion of the Falklands.

Boy, did he get that one badly wrong!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I was hoping my comments were wooly enough to convey the same unease. This is the Greyest of Grey areas, my point was more the worry that globally people seem incapable of accepting another view or that the decisions made in a snapshot in history are not necessarily the ones that would be made now. Colston I get although throwing the statue in the Avon is going too far for me. Cecil Rhodes? More difficult although he clearly is an architect of some of Africa's problems now. Not sure there were a lot of street demonstrations against Imperialism at the time?

Captain Cook? Julius Caesar? Christopher Columbus? There are a lot of historical figures who judged through a 21st century lens don't come out of it too well. Where if anywhere is a line to be drawn?

Fair enough. 100% on your page

 

[Bold Seagull]

Negotiating my a**e! What happened was that Sir John Nott-a-very-good-Defence-Secretary decided to scrap HMS Endurance, the Royal Navy's Antarctic patrol boat that protected the Falklands to save some money to spend on his lovely nuclear deterrents. General Galtieri, desperate to quell the unrest against his government in Argentina used his power of wishful thinking to assume this was an indication that the UK wouldn't exactly bust a gut to protect the rights of the Falkland islanders. So, for political gain, he ordered the invasion of the Falklands.

Boy, did he get that one badly wrong!

You could argue both leaders got it badly wrong. A 1000 ordinary lives lost because a dictator took a last throw of the dice, and a Prime Minister didn't let diplomacy and and international pressure see if it could force an Argentinian climb down. Galtieri was a dead man walking politically as it was.

I think Roger Waters summed it up all very nicely in Pink Floyd's 'Southampton Dock' from the moving anti war album The Final Cut:

They disembarked in 45
And no-one spoke and no-one smiled
There were too many spaces in the line.
Gathered at the cenotaph
All agreed with the hand on heart
To sheath the sacrificial knives.

But now
She stands upon Southampton dock
With her handkerchief
And her summer frock clings
To her wet body in the rain.

In quiet desperation knuckles
White upon the slippery reins
She bravely waves the boys Goodbye again.

And still the dark stain spreads between
Their shoulder blades.
A mute reminder of the poppy fields and graves.
And when the fight was over
We spent what they had made.
But, in the bottom of our hearts
We felt the final cut.

 

[joydivisionovengloves]

I look forward to needing a shit in Grantham.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Try telling that to the families of the 323 killed on the ARA General Belgrano that was heading back to port.

We were at war, that ship posed a threat to British forces, even if only in the future.

 

[GT49er]

You could argue both leaders got it badly wrong.

True enough, though Argentina had weeks in which it could have negotiated. Instead, they just ignored UN Security Council Resolution 502 which among other things demanded the withdrawal of all Argentine troops from the Falklands, pending negotiations through the UN. Sadly for all the young Argentine conscripts, most of whom didn't want to be there anyway, Galtieri wasn't having anything to do with UN resolutions.

 

[Chicken Run]

Eh? She started a pointless war to get re-elected when we were previously in the process of negotiating away sovereignty. That killed a thousand people.

Can you provide a link please to show that the UK Government were previously in the process of negotiating away sovereignty of the Falkland Isles, I served in the late 80’s and through the 90 ‘s with many FW vets who were more than happy to head down south and get stuck in and knew the risks, it was simple, Argentinian forces invade British Sovereign territory, British Government send troops down there to deal with it End Ex.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

We were at war, that ship posed a threat to British forces, even if only in the future.

Once war has been declared it has to be simply open warfare,like it or not.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Looking forward to making the pilgrimage to pay homage ..

 

[Leekbrookgull]

The GB could have turned around in under an hour. Thatcher was right. Any government sending people into conflict has to back them 101%.

 

[loz]

As long as we can see a quick tasteful climmer of her vag it will get my vote... copyrights Derek and Clive

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Given that the maggie squad have now arrived from the pub, let's enjoy an old Falklands cartoon from Private Eye