[Albion] Marc Cucurella *Signed For Chelsea 05/08/2022*

[Icy Gull]

Since 2001, Spanish teams have faced foreign opposition in 19 finals in CL/EL. The Spanish clubs won all 19, because until Covid it was the best league in the world.

Winning with Manchester City or Bayern Munich is more difficult, they're PL/Bundesliga were not on the same leve - especially the top clubs - l and it showed at the final stages of the top competitions

Probably starting to change now. Haaland is a historical signing for the Premier League - ten or even five years ago he would have gone to Real or Barca, no doubt. I think if Pep stay with City for another few years, they will likely win the CL. Managers have some importance of course, but money and quality is the key in the end. Guardiola would not win the PL with Brighton... but his 30+ titles indicates he is doing something right.

Potter is going to win the PL for us thanks, Pep can stay at Superstar City

 

[Icy Gull]

Pep is a good manager i agree, but imo he is over rated. If i was the owner of shitty i would have expected at least 1 CL trophie and a few more domeztic with the money invested. Maybe the owner agrees if its true what people are saying that they need to sale before setting a bid for Cucu.

If he was as good as people think why does he not bring througj more of his academy players.
Playing football out from the back was not invented by Pep, its been around a long time.
Why does he want Cucu, because Potter has made him into an outstanding player? If Pep was that good he would have signed him before we did.

I'm with you, Pep has bought or inherited nearly all his squads. As you say if he was as good as touted he would have brought through talent. Maybe he has but I'm struggling to think of many. Foden and ermm..........I imagine they get to pick a large number of budding youngsters too so they should be coming through imo.

 

[Popeye]

See city value Ake at £50m, hopefully the penny will drop on Bluemoon soon


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Its amazing how much that dude has gone for and is still valued at and not even close to having the talent to justify it.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Its amazing how much that dude has gone for and is still valued at and not even close to having the talent to justify it.

https://youtu.be/GLvohMXgcBo

 

[SeagullinExile]

Er, yes. Sir Alex was an outstanding manager too.

But just for fun...

Sir Alex had 50 trophies over a near 40 year career. Guardiola has 33 in 15 years. Including a club record 14 at Barcelona.

But yes, Sir Alex was an outstanding manager just as Guardiola is.

I doubt Guardiola will be in football long enough tbh. Going back to your statement that he would walk League 2, 1 and the Championship. Do you honestly think that if he took over let’s say Barrow, with the exactly the same resources that they currently have, that he’d turn them into champions just through his coaching? Sure he’d improve them but champions? Not a chance.

 

[oldboyroy]

Think folks are looking at Pep the wrong way around.

We're finding it difficult to prove he's a top quality manager because he's always had the budget and players at his disposal to forge a winning team. OK.

But let's look at it another way: would a bang average (or worse) manager have achieved what he's achieved with the same quality and budget at their disposal? Or would they have squandered it? I can think of plenty of managers who would not have achieved what Pep has achieved given the same opportunities.

So we can, at the very least, say that Pep is a quality manager who gets near to maximum results from the tools at his disposal, and does it consistently. If he was not up to scratch, he would have been found out by now IMO (regardless of the quality / budgets at his disposal).

Just look at the mess at Man U since Fergie left. The budget is there. Quality players have been there. And yet... I reckon Pep at Man U would have delivered titles and cups. I believe the same would be the case at Chelsea, Tottenham, and Arsenal as well. And he'd have done a a pretty similar job at Liverpool as Klopp has in terms of delivering success, if not better. And, I would argue, he would have delivered better results for a good many clubs in the Prem.

Pep is good, damn good. There's a reason we've never seen him manage lower leagues, and never will.

Agree....... spot on

 

[oldboyroy]

See city value Ake at £50m, hopefully the penny will drop on Bluemoon soon


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Yes, they were offered 45 according to reports and they (city) said no 50 million or no sale.......ditto boys ditto!

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

This debate re Guardiola is too subjective to be definitive. What's undeniable is his style of football has been the leading influence on how the modern game is played. Even our Graham is replicating much of Peps style, high press, tiki taka, possession based football.

There is an organisation, the international federation of football history and statistics who devised an equitable method for determining THE WORLD’S BEST CLUB COACH OF THE DECADE 2011-2020.

Pep came 2nd.

Name Country Points
Diego SIMEONE Argentina 152
Josep GUARDIOLA Spain 144
Jürgen KLOPP Germany 105
Jose MOURINHO Portugal 91
Maximiliano ALLEGRI Italy 77
Unaï EMERY Spain 70
Zinedine ZIDANE France 59
Carlo ANCELOTTI Italy 57
Mauriccio POCHETTINO Argentina 56
Marcelo GALLARDO Argentina 56
Antonio CONTE Italy 53
Claudio RANIERI Italy 36
Alex FERGUSON Scotland 35
Luis ENRIQUE Spain 35
Josef HEYNCKES Germany 34
Ernesto VALVERDE Spain 26
Arsene WENGER France 25
Leonardo JARDIM Portugal 25
Jesse MARSH USA 22
Laurent BLANC France 21

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I doubt Guardiola will be in football long enough tbh. Going back to your statement that he would walk League 2, 1 and the Championship. Do you honestly think that if he took over let’s say Barrow, with the exactly the same resources that they currently have, that he’d turn them into champions just through his coaching? Sure he’d improve them but champions? Not a chance.

Look at what Poyet did with us in the relegation zone of League 1 to Champions at a canter within 18 months. Adam El Abd from a hoofer to a decent defender winning Player of the Season.

 

[Swansman]

There is an organisation, the international federation of football history and statistics who devised an equitable method for determining THE WORLD’S BEST CLUB COACH OF THE DECADE 2011-2020.

This organisation is pretty funny.

For a very long time it consisted of just one guy, Alfredo Pöge, with their "office" being his home in Switzerland. He knew some bloke over at FIFA when he started the organisation back in 1984 and there was a lot of attention - some of "their" award ceremonies were even televised - to the awards for a long time (and 'they' still get attention in some papers these days) until there was literally just Pöge from the organisation showing up at these ceremonies... plenty of established football historians tried to apply to the organisation, but were all denied membership. Neither were journalists allowed to visit the IFFHS offices.

Pöge made a lot of money through sponsorship contracts until at some point in the early 2000s it was obvious it was just a one man organisation. The "best coach", "best ref" and "best player" awards are allegedly chosen through voting - but you'll struggle to find anyone who says they ever participated with their vote.

When some sponsors took the organisation to court in 2006, it was revealed it was not even registered as an organisation. They lost their final sponsors at that time and since 2008 the awards are only published on the IFFHS website and faxed/emailed to various news publications. The German press are aware of all of this and doesn't publish any of this basement-produced mumbo jumbo but due to the organisation having a serious sounding name and a lot of hype in the past, plenty of media all over the world still throw attention in their direction.

Alfredo Pöge died in 2013. With no sponsors around for the last few years of him acting as this organisation, he started selling nice IFFHS titles as there's plenty of old rich men who would like the label "Vice president/Committee member (etc.) of the International Federation of Football History & Statistics"... in reality it means nowt. They probably still find some way to make money through it, because it is still up and running, but if you visit the IFFHS website you'll quickly understand that the whole thing is just a scam... Like this members page:

https://www.iffhs.com/about#iffhsMembers

Somehow the International Federation of Football History & Statistics does not have one single member from England, Germany, France etc.. just random blokes who you're not ever going to be able to find a way to contact.

For more information, feel free to try to get in touch with their "Executive Committe"...

https://www.iffhs.com/storage/img/posts/c8429463-4cb6-450f-bbbd-1684c966ee88.jpg

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

This organisation is pretty funny.

For a very long time it consisted of just one guy, Alfredo Pöge, with their "office" being his home in Switzerland. He knew some bloke over at FIFA when he started the organisation back in 1984 and there was a lot of attention - some of "their" award ceremonies were even televised - to the awards for a long time (and 'they' still get attention in some papers these days) until there was literally just Pöge from the organisation showing up at these ceremonies... plenty of established football historians tried to apply to the organisation, but were all denied membership. Neither were journalists allowed to visit the IFFHS offices.

Pöge made a lot of money through sponsorship contracts until at some point in the early 2000s it was obvious it was just a one man organisation. The "best coach", "best ref" and "best player" awards are allegedly chosen through voting - but you'll struggle to find anyone who says they ever participated with their vote.

When some sponsors took the organisation to court in 2006, it was revealed it was not even registered as an organisation. They lost their final sponsors at that time and since 2008 the awards are only published on the IFFHS website and faxed/emailed to various news publications. The German press are aware of all of this and doesn't publish any of this basement-produced mumbo jumbo but due to the organisation having a serious sounding name and a lot of hype in the past, plenty of media all over the world still throw attention in their direction.

Alfredo Pöge died in 2013. With no sponsors around for the last few years of him acting as this organisation, he started selling nice IFFHS titles as there's plenty of old rich men who would like the label "Vice president/Committee member (etc.) of the International Federation of Football History & Statistics"... in reality it means nowt. They probably still find some way to make money through it, because it is still up and running, but if you visit the IFFHS website you'll quickly understand that the whole thing is just a scam... Like this members page:

https://www.iffhs.com/about#iffhsMembers

Somehow the International Federation of Football History & Statistics does not have one single member from England, Germany, France etc.. just random blokes who you're not ever going to be able to find a way to contact.

For more information, feel free to try to get in touch with their "Executive Committe"...

https://www.iffhs.com/storage/img/posts/c8429463-4cb6-450f-bbbd-1684c966ee88.jpg

Good knowledge.

It does sound a bit iffy. Almost as dodgy as a sports world governing body who run thier own enforced compulsory competitions for profit at the expense of member national competitions.

All of football is a dirty business run by faceless Alfredo Pöges.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Pep is a good manager i agree, but imo he is over rated. If i was the owner of shitty i would have expected at least 1 CL trophie and a few more domeztic with the money invested. Maybe the owner agrees if its true what people are saying that they need to sale before setting a bid for Cucu.

If he was as good as people think why does he not bring througj more of his academy players.
Playing football out from the back was not invented by Pep, its been around a long time.
Why does he want Cucu, because Potter has made him into an outstanding player? If Pep was that good he would have signed him before we did.

I'm not sure that a number of Champions League wins proves much. Success in knock-out competitions is often down to a poor performance on the day, a poor refereeing decision, any number of factors, while league titles generally indicate sustained excellence. And it's hard to fault Guardiola on that front. And really, why bother bringing through academy players if you can go out and buy someone better? (As Dan Ashworth may be wondering at Newcastle.)

On the other hand, I agree that Pep has had the considerable advantage in title-gathering of managing three wealthy clubs, two of whom were serial champions and one of which was, when he arrived, the richest club in world football. We may or may not believe that he could achieve the sort of transformation at, say, Mansfield or Carlisle that Poyet did here, but until he tries it we don't know. It would make a great TV reality show, or become a great reality check..

 

[GT49er]

This debate re Guardiola is too subjective to be definitive. What's undeniable is his style of football has been the leading influence on how the modern game is played. Even our Graham is replicating much of Peps style, high press, tiki taka, possession based football.

There is an organisation, the international federation of football history and statistics who devised an equitable method for determining THE WORLD’S BEST CLUB COACH OF THE DECADE 2011-2020.

Pep came 2nd.

Name Country Points
Diego SIMEONE Argentina 152
Josep GUARDIOLA Spain 144
Jürgen KLOPP Germany 105
Jose MOURINHO Portugal 91
Maximiliano ALLEGRI Italy 77
Unaï EMERY Spain 70
Zinedine ZIDANE France 59
Carlo ANCELOTTI Italy 57
Mauriccio POCHETTINO Argentina 56
Marcelo GALLARDO Argentina 56
Antonio CONTE Italy 53
Claudio RANIERI Italy 36
Alex FERGUSON Scotland 35
Luis ENRIQUE Spain 35
Josef HEYNCKES Germany 34
Ernesto VALVERDE Spain 26
Arsene WENGER France 25
Leonardo JARDIM Portugal 25
Jesse MARSH USA 22
Laurent BLANC France 21

Ranieri above Sir Alex........................ they certainly know their stuff, don't they?

 

[Medwayseagull]

Ranieri above Sir Alex........................ they certainly know their stuff, don't they?

As Ferguson retired in 2013 the period in question is only partially relevant to him. If it were the first decade of this century he would be around the top.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

The Champions league is easier to win now than the European cup, when a team that finishes 4th in its league qualifies for the Champions league it loses any respect. Thats living in Leeds fantasy land.

You said that if Pep was our manager we would be in the CL places, is that with the same squad as GP and same budget.

So why are you bothered by how many champions league titles he has(n't) won for Man City?

If he took over the team now? Yes. If he took over the team a few seasons ago, same budget but the players would presumably be different. This is not a slight on Potter by the way, who is proving to be an excellent manager.

Do you dispute the effect that Guardiola has had on the game? If you do, can you name another manager/coach who has been as or more influential in the past 20 years?

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I doubt Guardiola will be in football long enough tbh. Going back to your statement that he would walk League 2, 1 and the Championship. Do you honestly think that if he took over let’s say Barrow, with the exactly the same resources that they currently have, that he’d turn them into champions just through his coaching? Sure he’d improve them but champions? Not a chance.

Re Guardiola being in management as long as Ferguson, I think you're right. 40 years is an incredible length of time to manage at the top.

As for Barrow. Yes, why not? Are you saying that Barrow have no chance of ever getting promoted as Champions with their current resources(whatever their current resources are)?

 

[brighton_tom]

See city value Ake at £50m, hopefully the penny will drop on Bluemoon soon


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Ake barely gets a game for them and is valued at £40-50m. Spends his city career sitting on the bench, and they want more money for him than they originally paid. & yet we're the ones apparently with an unrealistic valuation of our player?

If reports are to be believed they also seem to want £35m-40m for Zinchenko, a player that they seemingly want an upgrade on, but yet we're mad for wanting around £50m for Cucurella?! The logic is baffling. They want to sell a left back for the same price as they then purchase the upgrade for that position. Cant have it both ways.

 

[BRIGHT ON Q]

Ake barely gets a game for them and is valued at £40-50m. Spends his city career sitting on the bench, and they want more money for him than they originally paid. & yet we're the ones apparently with an unrealistic valuation of our player?

If reports are to be believed they also seem to want £35m-40m for Zinchenko, a player that they seemingly want an upgrade on, but yet we're mad for wanting around £50m for Cucurella?! The logic is baffling. They want to sell a left back for the same price as they then purchase the upgrade for that position. Cant have it both ways.

I wouldn't worry about blue moon, biggest bunch of privileged twats out there.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Man City fans are just weird.

When I've met them they desperately want to be preferred to other big 6 teams - they genuinely seem think they are different.

They don't realise that they are just the hubristic same. Lol.

 

[jessiejames]

So why are you bothered by how many champions league titles he has(n't) won for Man City?

If he took over the team now? Yes. If he took over the team a few seasons ago, same budget but the players would presumably be different. This is not a slight on Potter by the way, who is proving to be an excellent manager.

Do you dispute the effect that Guardiola has had on the game? If you do, can you name another manager/coach who has been as or more influential in the past 20 years?

Because if i owned Shitty and had pumped the vast sums of money that he has been given, i would have expected better in the C/L. Pep can go out and buy the best players in the world, but would he have achieved what he has at shitty with a budget of say West Ham? Imo no. All i am saying is he is over rated.

IMO Potter, Moyes, Conte, Dyche and the Brentford manager are just as good, if they were managing Shitty i believe that there would not be much difference between titles won.