Man Utd's season

[Simster]

Fair enough.

However last season Maureen was sacked by Chelsea for skirting too close to relegation, rather than winning a title.

If a small club such as Crystal Palace had won the League Cup and Europa Cup I would have said it was a good return, but this is Manchester United, and, whilst I am far fonder of the blue part of the city, they should be delivering decent silverware. Last night was the equivalent of the Albion under 23's winning the Sussex Senior Cup, as you say, nice to have, but won't live long in the memory.

As for the wage bill and signings of the last two seasons, it has given Maureen an inheritance of players, De Gea, Rooney, Smalling, Mata, Martial, Jones, Valencia, Fellaini et al that most managers would have been delighted to have on their first day in the job.

I'll give you the full SP on JM the next time we meet!

This bit really is absolute nonsense. I'd think a nearer Albion equivalent was when we won the league one title under Poyet. Both last night and Albion's league one win are proper trophies that go on the honours list, yet fans kind of hope we never have to compete for them again.

 

[El Presidente]

This bit really is absolute nonsense. I'd think a nearer Albion equivalent was when we won the league one title under Poyet. Both last night and Albion's league one win are proper trophies that go on the honours list, yet fans kind of hope we never have to compete for them again.

I was being a bit OTT admittedly in the Sussex Senior comment, fair enough. I would however say that the Albion's achievement in winning L1, when we had a budget far smaller than that of the Stains, was pretty impressive.

United's revenue this season exceeds that of Ajax, Celta Vigo, Anderlecht, FK Rostov, St. Etienne, FC Zorya Luhansk, Feyenoord, Fenerbache, their opponents in the Europa League, combined. Admittedly they can only beat what is in front of them, and they did that.

 

[El Presidente]

'Mickey Mouse Treble' banner at Old Trafford 2001 after Liverpool won the League Cup, UEFA Cup and Charidy Shield.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Interesting stuff as always, but you're letting your own anti-rags bias get in the way of objectivity. Firstly, the wage bill of the previous two seasons are nothing to do with this season, so pointless mentioning it - it wasn't on Mourinho's watch as he was busy winning the title elsewhere. Secondly, United have an enormous wage bill because they have had to over-pay to get their players as a sort of compensation for them not playing in the champions league. For example, a year ago Paul Pogba could have chosen anybody, and any champions league team. For United to compete for his signature, they'd have had to blow the wage offerings of other clubs out of the water.

Onto this season, I suspect Mourinho's only remit was to make sure they were in the Champions League. They are. Job done. It's a success. They've enhanced their season further by winning a league cup too. Only a "nice to have" for a club of that size, but they'll take it.

I agree with you on their league performance. Sixth in a 6 horse race is not good enough, and I'm sure they'll expect better next season. In my opinion, next season will show us whether Mourinho really is still a top, top manager, or whether he has a shelf life like nearly every other manager in the game.

A slightly more objective assessment. Spurs/Man City/Liverpool/Arsenal would all obviously have swapped for Man Utd's season. Jose wins trophies, they are harder to win than some people appear to think, and that's another two in the locker plus a Champions League return. Pretty impressive in a first season, with the team clearly in transition - even if it all hinged on one match last night.

But let's give Mourinho some due credit. You had a match that in football terms was huge for him, the club, the players - but in human terms was an irrelevance. Not the easiest place from which to get a performance from your team, but he did. Events had taken the joy out of the final, so it was merely a job that needed doing, and he got it done.

Man Utd have had a very strange season, when you look at the home points they have dropped after matches (usually draws) they often dominated, they could easily have been much higher up the table. Maybe 16-20 points higher.

With a free hand to sign who they want, and as Simster says not have to pay extra for no Champs Lg, you'd expect them to be pushing very hard in PL and Ch L next season. We are very fortunate to have the managers we have in the Premier League currently. Mourinho, Guardiola, Conte, Klopp, Pochettino, Koeman, maybe still Wenger, Koeman...and Chris Hughton, of course

 

[silverwizard]

Winning the premier league supersedes anything other than winning the Champions League. I'm not a Spurs fan in any way but sideshow trophies aside Spurs have had a better season than United. Week in week out they have entertained and been the only side to get anywhere near Chelsea. United on the other hand have only shone in cup competitions and their football has often been stutifyingly dull. Since Ferguson retired they are scarcely worth watching.

 

[Bozza]

'Mickey Mouse Treble' banner at Old Trafford 2001 after Liverpool won the League Cup, UEFA Cup and Charidy Shield.

In 2001, Liverpool also won the FA Cup - not sure why your source would exclude that (or he got confused as to what the treble actually was). I wouldn't say winning the UEFA Cup, League Cup and FA Cup in a single season is too shabby, particularly given that they'd had a very lean spell leading up to 2001.

 

[Bozza]

Winning the premier league supersedes anything other than winning the Champions League. I'm not a Spurs fan in any way but sideshow trophies aside Spurs have had a better season than United. Week in week out they have entertained and been the only side to get anywhere near Chelsea. United on the other hand have only shone in cup competitions and their football has often been stutifyingly dull. Since Ferguson retired they are scarcely worth watching.

It would be interesting to know the proportion of United fans who would swap their season with Spurs. Yes, United have the trophies but there has been a fair bit of disquiet from United fans at the football and performances they have put up. Spurs, on the other hand, have played pretty exhilarating football that gave Chelsea something to think about for most of the campaign.

Spurs are probably the only team that, as a neutral, I would go out of my way to watch.

 

[Seasidesage]

Coming sixth in a six horse race, despite spending £166 million on new players in the summer, following on from spending £167 million and £151 million in the previous two season, and having a wage bill that looks as if it will hit £260 million, by far the highest in the world.

For that they won the League Cup and the Europa Cup where they beat the might of Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta Vigo and an Ajax teamwirh an average age of 22.

This. I don't think he's done much of a job at all when you consider they are spending several times the budget of almost everyone else in that division. 6th? Cups are nice and getting into the CL is a result for Utd but the league is the true arbiter of where they are. Contrast their spending with Spurs and even Chelsea...

 

[Simster]

This. I don't think he's done much of a job at all when you consider they are spending several times the budget of almost everyone else in that division. 6th? Cups are nice and getting into the CL is a result for Utd but the league is the true arbiter of where they are. Contrast their spending with Spurs and even Chelsea...

I wouldn't disagree that sixth is feeble and is indeed a true reflection of their capabilities as a team. But the question is whether this has been a successful season for them. Surely, two cup trophies and back in the Champions League for a team in transition represents success? It's certainly been a better season for them than Liverpool (who finished 4th but won nothing) or Arsenal (even if they win the cup on Saturday, which they won't), and arguably better than Spurs, who are a FAR better side.

 

[silverwizard]

No one is saying that United's season has been a total failure. Winning the Europa has rescued their season, but it is a competition that was never designed for the likes of United but for the "second tier" in Europe such as the teams United have beaten on their way to the trophy.
Spurs have not won anything this season other than an automatic place in The Champions league yet, as I said, they have been better than United and their style of play is much closer to the United ideal. Manchester United's worldwide brand is based on winning major trophies in style and in giving fans exciting,entertaining football to watch. This season has seen them win two "secondary" trophies and rarely entertain. Mourinho is happy to win trophies in a pragmatic way relying on first preventing the other side from scoring. I agree it is effective but it is not the United way, hence the disquiet among their fans.
No doubt a massive spending spree is coming in the summer!

 

[Tooting Gull]

It would be interesting to know the proportion of United fans who would swap their season with Spurs. Yes, United have the trophies but there has been a fair bit of disquiet from United fans at the football and performances they have put up. Spurs, on the other hand, have played pretty exhilarating football that gave Chelsea something to think about for most of the campaign.

Spurs are probably the only team that, as a neutral, I would go out of my way to watch.

It's a good question, and I've really enjoyed watching Spurs also this season.

Personally I don't think - not after yesterday, at least - you'd get many United fans saying they'd swap for Spurs' season, along the lines of 'first is first, second (or sixth) is nowhere' espoused by their manager.

Among Spurs fans it's a straight trade - two trophies, for better football and a really good team since both are in the CL. Many would loyally side with their team's season in public, but privately it might be different.

I hope this Spurs team do win something, and that Wembley doesn't cause them too many problems.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I would frame the question slightly, and eventually ask another.

Does Mourinho's focus on winning trophies mean that United have had a better season that Spurs, Liverpool, Man City & Arsenal? Chelsea may well win the FA Cup, and if so, the other 3 teams will have won nothing, Yes, they will be richer, and yes they have qualified for the Champions League, but another season passes and no silverware.

So, my follow up question is this; does this show that the current trend towards clubs treating the FA / League Cups with contempt is erroneous? Should Prem clubs, particular those in mid table make MORE of an effort in the cups, as in years to come, it will be those moments that will live in the memory.

Clubs like West Brom, Southampton and Everton are prime for making a big effort one season, and perhaps in a few years time, we might be positioned to give it a go.

 

[Bold Seagull]

No one is saying that United's season has been a total failure. Winning the Europa has rescued their season, but it is a competition that was never designed for the likes of United but for the "second tier" in Europe such as the teams United have beaten on their way to the trophy.
Spurs have not won anything this season other than an automatic place in The Champions league yet, as I said, they have been better than United and their style of play is much closer to the United ideal. Manchester United's worldwide brand is based on winning major trophies in style and in giving fans exciting,entertaining football to watch. This season has seen them win two "secondary" trophies and rarely entertain. Mourinho is happy to win trophies in a pragmatic way relying on first preventing the other side from scoring. I agree it is effective but it is not the United way, hence the disquiet among their fans.
No doubt a massive spending spree is coming in the summer!

Wasn't it Brian Clough who, regardless of the competition made a massive deal of his team winning silverware and getting in the habit of winning. I'm sure I read somewhere that Forest or one of his teams won the County Cup and he treated it as a big deal - because teams that get used to winning silverware, carry on doing it. Or was it Ferguson!? I read it somewhere. Anyway, with ManUtd still in the shadow of the Ferguson years of success, I am sure Mourinho is desperate for them to step out of that, and in a way, this is a new starting point. He is a **** though.

 

[Triggaaar]

a wage bill that looks as if it will hit £260 million, by far the highest in the world.

This has surprised me, I assumed Madrid and Barca were spending more. How is it they spend less, and get the best players?

 

[silverwizard]

Somewhere recently I saw a premier league table based on points gained compared with wage bills. United came bottom of that league and I think Bournemouth came top!

 

[Gritt23]

Coming sixth in a six horse race, despite spending £166 million on new players in the summer, following on from spending £167 million and £151 million in the previous two season, and having a wage bill that looks as if it will hit £260 million, by far the highest in the world.

For that they won the League Cup and the Europa Cup where they beat the might of Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta Vigo and an Ajax teamwirh an average age of 22.

This.

"You're not Special anymore ....." is the song that rings around in my head whenever the subject comes up. He has spent a vast amount of money, to simply not move the club on in League terms at all.

Jose comes in, and Man Utd fans are (if they are honest) accepting his dull brand of anti-football, parking the bus against better teams, but moaning like mad when weaker teams do it to them. But they are accepting it because he is a WINNER (apparently), so the football may not be great, but he will immediately have them back in the top 4 (minimum) and challenging for the title again.

Ludicrous spending, and a year later, and the League performance has gone from.
2015/16 - 5th. Goals 49. Points 66, to
2016/17 - 6th. Goals 54. Points 69.

They have spent a lot of money, and sold out on a lot of their principles to move forward by 3 points, and back 1 place.

Anyone who tells you that the Europa League matters more to them than their League placing, is lying. It's a tinpot European competition which has suffered because of the ever growing nature of the Champions League. It's no more than a qualifying route to the main tournament. They've basically won the modern Inter-toto cup. If that is cause for a massive celebration then they really have fallen a LONG way.

 

[theboybilly]

This. I don't think he's done much of a job at all when you consider they are spending several times the budget of almost everyone else in that division. 6th? Cups are nice and getting into the CL is a result for Utd but the league is the true arbiter of where they are. Contrast their spending with Spurs and even Chelsea...

Yes United spend loads of money but by and large they can afford to because of the money they can generate. The wage bill at Old Trafford, as a percentage of income (or turnover) is much less than a fair few clubs in the Premier League including Palace. All this despite the heavy debt put on the club. As my United-supporting mate keeps telling me 'Chelsea win trophies because of Abramovich but United win trophies despite the Glasers'

 

[El Presidente]

In 2001, Liverpool also won the FA Cup - not sure why your source would exclude that (or he got confused as to what the treble actually was). I wouldn't say winning the UEFA Cup, League Cup and FA Cup in a single season is too shabby, particularly given that they'd had a very lean spell leading up to 2001.

You're absolutely right. Me bad. I was too busy thinking which Jive Bunny number 1 was going to get my vote.

 

[El Presidente]

Yes United spend loads of money but by and large they can afford to because of the money they can generate. The wage bill at Old Trafford, as a percentage of income (or turnover) is much less than a fair few clubs in the Premier League including Palace. All this despite the heavy debt put on the club. As my United-supporting mate keeps telling me 'Chelsea win trophies because of Abramovich but United win trophies despite the Glasers'

As much as I loathe the Glazers I don' think your friend is right though. I think it's fair to say that had it not been for Abramovic and Sheik Mansoor United would have won a lot more Premier League titles, but their spending on wages and players is on a par with that of the two rich man's playthings clubs. Remember too that United came from a much better start point.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Man Utd can certainly claim to have had better season's than Spurs, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal though.

I am having the same discussion at the moment, I personally think they have had a better season than Spurs.

No doubt Spurs play better football, but they have won three trophies this season and gone in to a higher pot than Spurs for the CL