[Finance] Man City accused of breaking EPL financial rules

[5Ways Gull]

I wonder if Chelsea's recent behaviour has pushed the PL over the edge?

 

[trueblue]

I wonder if Chelsea's recent behaviour has pushed the PL over the edge?

I do think it's the threat of an external regulator that pushed them over the edge. Just hope there's more to it than that and they can make the charges stick.

 

[Taybha]

Man City lawyers are said to be surprised

 

[Mackenzie]

Frustrating isn't it.

Renders the competition worthless. Can't be a good feeling for Manchester City fans knowing that everything they've achieved is now meaningless.

On a related note, I bet football players hate FFP, its a bit of a handbrake on their wages. Imagine the incentives they'd get if it was a free for all (see Man City players for further details).

 

[Weststander]

Did they say it's taken something like 4 years to get to this point? So a year ago, City were being looked at for breaking FFP, but it wasn't announced until now. That could be the case with others being looked at too, but not yet revealed.

But on the face of it, you wouldn't expect Spurs to be breaking rules as they don't spend much money, rather they end up selling good players to the likes of City. If you look at who's spent the most over the last couple of decades, I'd guess Man U have spent a fair amount, with Chelsea going large when Abramovich took over, and then City doing likewise following their takeover. City and Chelsea didn't have big income streams prior to their takeovers, whereas Man U have had the largest income for decades, suggesting they're more likely to have stayed within the rules.

Is there anyone who thought City weren't breaking the rules?

Trevor Sinclair, Danny Mills and Liam Gallagher.

 

[nicko31]

I wonder if Chelsea's recent behaviour has pushed the PL over the edge?

They broke English football in 2003, now another phase after Citeh showed it can be still done and you can still get away with it.

Nothing significant will happen, i hope I'm wrong

 

[Uh_huh_him]

They broke English football in 2003, now another phase after Citeh showed it can be still done and you can still get away with it.

Nothing significant will happen, i hope I'm wrong

I still blame Blackburn Rovers for proving a league title could be bought.

 

[nicko31]

I still blame Blackburn Rovers for proving a league title could be bought.

At least Jack Walker was a fan owner, but yes it was the start of this....

 

[Weststander]

Just one sample of emails, demonstrating orchestrated dishonesty here.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cit...-pl-with-numerous-ffp-breaches.464361/page-63

 

[Stato]

I still blame Blackburn Rovers for proving a league title could be bought.

You've got the wrong Blackburn. Blackburn Olympic's 1883 Cup Final win over the Old Etonians was won with players who were rumoured to have been paid! Completely unfair on the ex-public school gentlemen amateur teams (who were wealthy enough to be able to play without payment).

Blackburn Rovers' title was bought in the same way as every other team's titles were bought. The crtitique of Blackburn was just old money versus new money. I've little time for friend of Thatcher Jack Walker, but he only wanted to do for his home team what Tony Bloom is trying to do for his. The field was more open back then, so he was able to go all the way. All of the big clubs have a history of being bankrolled too. When it is inherited wealth, like that which allowed Old Etonians their advantage before 1883, it's less questioned, but it's no more sustainable or fair.

 

[Weststander]

You've got the wrong Blackburn. Blackburn Olympic's 1883 Cup Final win over the Old Etonians was won with players who were rumoured to have been paid! Completely unfair on the ex-public school gentlemen amateur teams (who were wealthy enough to be able to play without payment).

Blackburn Rovers' title was bought in the same way as every other team's titles were bought. The crtitique of Blackburn was just old money versus new money. I've little time for friend of Thatcher Jack Walker, but he only wanted to do for his home team what Tony Bloom is trying to do for his. The field was more open back then, so he was able to go all the way. All of the big clubs have a history of being bankrolled too. When it is inherited wealth, like that which allowed Old Etonians their advantage before 1883, it's less questioned, but it's no more sustainable or fair.

That wasn’t always true.

The accounts for clubs are now available online going back to the 70’s and 80’s. By May 1984 for example, Liverpool’s accounts reveal no loans from the owners and long standing share capital of just £60,000. The chairman and CEO expertly managed club income, bought a couple of players each summer and moved on players. The club was profitable, player wages (revealed) under control.

Hence great players heading for Italy, Spain and Germany in that era.

It was mentioned at the time that ManU and Spurs did do what you say, I could delve further.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

You've got the wrong Blackburn. Blackburn Olympic's 1883 Cup Final win over the Old Etonians was won with players who were rumoured to have been paid! Completely unfair on the ex-public school gentlemen amateur teams (who were wealthy enough to be able to play without payment).

Blackburn Rovers' title was bought in the same way as every other team's titles were bought. The crtitique of Blackburn was just old money versus new money. I've little time for friend of Thatcher Jack Walker, but he only wanted to do for his home team what Tony Bloom is trying to do for his. The field was more open back then, so he was able to go all the way. All of the big clubs have a history of being bankrolled too. When it is inherited wealth, like that which allowed Old Etonians their advantage before 1883, it's less questioned, but it's no more sustainable or fair.

Fair comment.
However it was a key event in the escalation of transfer fees and wages to price the upstarts out of the competition.

 

[SAC]

Frustrating isn't it.

Renders the competition worthless. Can't be a good feeling for Manchester City fans knowing that everything they've achieved is now meaningless.

On a related note, I bet football players hate FFP, its a bit of a handbrake on their wages. Imagine the incentives they'd get if it was a free for all (see Man City players for further details).

It will only render the wins worthless if the titles and cups are taken away from them (along with the money obtained from them). If they are found guilty, this really needs to be done.

 

[Stato]

That wasn’t always true.

The accounts for clubs are now available online going back to the 70’s and 80’s. By May 1984 for example, Liverpool’s accounts reveal no loans from the owners and long standing share capital of just £60,000. The chairman and CEO expertly managed club income, bought a couple of players each summer and moved on players. The club was profitable, player wages (revealed) under control.

Hence great players heading for Italy, Spain and Germany in that era.

It was mentioned at the time that ManU and Spurs did do what you say, I could delve further.

True but the longer wealth is established the less easy it is to find its origin and the more it is accepted as being a fact of life, rather than an unfair advantage. Liverpool were a team started by a greedy landlord who found himself with an empty stadium after squeezing Everton too hard for rent. Their glory years under Shankly were sparked by a promotion aided by the purchases of Ron Yates and Ian St John, the latter broke the club's transfer record at that time. Success in the game can generally always be traced back to someone making a larger investment than their competitors. The likes of Man Utd and Liverpool just did it longer ago than most.

 

[Weststander]

True but the longer wealth is established the less easy it is to find its origin and the more it is accepted as being a fact of life, rather than an unfair advantage. Liverpool were a team started by a greedy landlord who found himself with an empty stadium after squeezing Everton too hard for rent. Their glory years under Shankly were sparked by a promotion aided by the purchases of Ron Yates and Ian St John, the latter broke the club's transfer record at that time. Success in the game can generally always be traced back to someone making a larger investment than their competitors. The likes of Man Utd and Liverpool just did it longer ago than most.

That's not borne out in LFC's accounts, which go back to 1973/74. Perhaps just a big city club with vast crowds and they lucked out with genius football managers, creating a virtuous circle. Fees/wages paid out of genuine club turnover.

 

[AmexRuislip]

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No shit Sherlock....

 

[Taybha]

Be honest can anyone really see the EPL chucking out Man City ?

If the panel find them guilty I reckon they will start off next season on minus 21 points or something like that,I doubt the Championship clubs would want them relegated this season as that'll be one less automatic promotion spot gone.

 

[Cornwallboy]

I didn’t know about that bias. I’ve always thought of Martin Samuel as a mouthy tabloids wknr. I think he supports West Ham, so he would be envious of clubs at the top who have far greater support and income.

Whenever he gets mentions on NS, his fanboys defend him as award winning, on a par with Hugh McIlvanney or Ian Wooldridge. He’s not. He’s the sports equivalent of Piers Morgan or Kelvin McKenzie. A cockney rent a gob.

Seems many agree with you:

Samuel began his career at Hayters news agency in London. He wrote for several national newspapers in the UK before he settled initially at The Times,[1] where he was named Sports Writer of the Year at the British Press Awards in 2007, and Sports Journalist of the Year at the British Sports Journalism Awards in 2005, 2006 and 2007. He was also Sports Journalist of the Year at the 'What The Papers Say' awards in 2002, 2005 and 2006.[2] He moved to the Daily Mail in 2008,[3] replacing the paper's sports columnist, Paul Hayward, who was returning to The Guardian.

During his time at the Daily Mail, Samuel was again named Sports Journalist of the Year at the British Sports Journalism Awards in 2010 and 2013, Sports Writer of the Year at the British Press Awards in 2013, and Sports Commentator of the Year at the Editorial Intelligence Comment Awards in 2014. In 2012, Samuel was named top in a UK Press Gazette poll of Britain's best sports journalists.[4] In January 2015, he was named in Debrett's List of the 500 Most Influential People in Britain.

 

[BBassic]

Be honest can anyone really see the EPL chucking out Man City ?

If the panel find them guilty I reckon they will start off next season on minus 21 points or something like that,I doubt the Championship clubs would want them relegated this season as that'll be one less automatic promotion spot gone.

If the EFL were to let them in. They're separate entities so the PL can expel them but the EFL have no obligation to let them into the league.

 

[fruitnveg]

If the EFL were to let them in. They're separate entities so the PL can expel them but the EFL have no obligation to let them into the league

I doubt it relevant as I am a know nothing pleb on matters like these, but some musings i made to my brother yesterday;
If the EFL accept City, they will get a single years benefit to having them around before they win promotion again. Or they could refuse City, see them down the National league and gain three years benefit (offput by the year they're in the national league) as they go back up from the bottom.