Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

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dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,625
So what’s the acceptable number of deaths then?
That's a very complex question. There's no simple answer.

For one thing, it depends who is dying. The current coronavirus deaths are made up mostly of two types - one, people who could have had the vaccine and chose not to. For them, pretty much any number is acceptable because they have made their own choice. They still have the option of self-isolation, or they have the option of vaccination, and I don't think they need any further options that rely on the rest of us suffering for their decision.

The second large group who are dying are the old and tired. Just like with flu, in fact - the majority of flu deaths are the people who are very old and already, so to speak, sitting in God's waiting room. And I know people will say I am being cruel and heartless and cynical, but we know that some lives are (in macro government terms) worth more than others - just consider who will get the kidney transplant, the otherwise healthy 10 year old or the otherwise healthy 90 year old to judge that. I would suggest that there are few grandparents who would insist their grandchildren's education should be messed about for another year, just to marginally increase grandma's chance of living six months longer in a nursing home. These are the people where we need to seriously consider how much harm we are doing to other people in doing our best to preserve their lives for a relatively short while longer.

We can look at it from the other side, of course. The average daily deaths by respiratory disease in general, where respiratory disease was the underlying cause, was 223 for the first 25 weeks of 2019. That was considered acceptable - at least, I don't remember any outcry. (For the first 25 weeks of this year, the number is 136 per day, much lower - 15,000 deaths over the six months - possibly because many of the people dying of covid already had imperfect lungs and would have died of another respiratory disease.) In 2019, the average number of respiratory disease deaths in May and June was 174 per day. In 2021 for the same weeks, 137 per day (126 "traditional" diseases, 11 covid). If Covid deaths rise to 48 and total respiratory deaths are back at 174 per day, would that be acceptable or not? It's a tough choice.

Regardless of what the government do, at least 600,000 people who are alive today will not be alive this time next year. Brutal though it sounds, they have to accept (like with the vaccination programme) that their actions will result in the deaths of people who would have lived longer if the decision had been different.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,103
Faversham


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,103
Faversham
Isn’t it what society will tolerate? Death from alcohol…obesity …the old favourite roads …I wonder if figures were given the publicity covid gets …would the freedoms we have change…probably not ..it’s only when someone close to us gets killed from a car accident that we remember that we are vulnerable …obviously all in my opinion

Avoidable callous indifference from our leaders is what I don't like :shrug:
 


e77

Well-known member
May 23, 2004
7,270
Worthing
Without wishing to repeat myself no one is suggesting a return to lockdown just to continue wearing face coverings in enclosed public spaces. Which no one has yet to explain to me a downside of other than some people not liking it.
 






darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,651
Sittingbourne, Kent
I think this thread should now be closed - we have two polar opposite camps, who clearly will NEVER agree with the other side.

There has been some poor choice of language used by both sides and a general lack of empathy all round. I guess the easy answer would be to stop reading it, but that’s a bit like same answer as racist Tweets, they’re only hurtful if someone reads them - but we all know that isn’t true.

Let those who want Freedom Day have and enjoy it - while those on the other side of things should spend a bit more time away from here, myself included, to regroup our thoughts as to how best to keep ourselves and loved ones safe.

Deriding each other on a football forum probably isn’t doing much for the health or wellbeing of any concerned.

Take care all and be kind...!
 


Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
I think this thread should now be closed - we have two polar opposite camps, who clearly will NEVER agree with the other side.

There has been some poor choice of language used by both sides and a general lack of empathy all round. I guess the easy answer would be to stop reading it, but that’s a bit like same answer as racist Tweets, they’re only hurtful if someone reads them - but we all know that isn’t true.

Let those who want Freedom Day have and enjoy it - while those on the other side of things should spend a bit more time away from here, myself included, to regroup our thoughts as to how best to keep ourselves and loved ones safe.

Deriding each other on a football forum probably isn’t doing much for the health or wellbeing of any concerned.

Take care all and be kind...!
We simply cannot close the main Coronavirus thread.

It's not over by a long way.

We are nearly at "Freedom For The Virus Day" and it is licking its viral lips at the prospect.
 


dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,530
Burgess Hill
I think this thread should now be closed - we have two polar opposite camps, who clearly will NEVER agree with the other side.

There has been some poor choice of language used by both sides and a general lack of empathy all round. I guess the easy answer would be to stop reading it, but that’s a bit like same answer as racist Tweets, they’re only hurtful if someone reads them - but we all know that isn’t true.

Let those who want Freedom Day have and enjoy it - while those on the other side of things should spend a bit more time away from here, myself included, to regroup our thoughts as to how best to keep ourselves and loved ones safe.

Deriding each other on a football forum probably isn’t doing much for the health or wellbeing of any concerned.

Take care all and be kind...!

This is the main discussion board for the biggest thing that’s happened in our lifetimes - no way should it be closed. Like many subjects there will be many strong differences of view expressed - there’s nothing wrong with that. Only time will tell us which ‘side’ is ‘right’ (likely answer being neither, and somewhere in between perhaps) but there is a way to go yet. It’s easy to understand viewpoints from both extremes and everything in between as due in part to personal circumstances and how the disease and lockdown is affecting people and I’ve found most of the debate on here pretty civil to be honest………..
 




Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,792
hassocks
Greece follow France

In Greece, unvaccinated people will be banned from bars, cinemas and theatres, after authorities blamed soaring infection numbers on people refusing to have the vaccine. The restrictions will apply nationwide including on the Greek islands.

"After a year and a half, no one can claim ignorance about the coronavirus anymore," Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said in a televised address. "The country will not shut down again due to attitude adopted by certain people ... It's not Greece that's a danger, but unvaccinated Greeks."
 


Billy the Fish

Technocrat
Oct 18, 2005
17,594
Haywards Heath
Greece follow France

In Greece, unvaccinated people will be banned from bars, cinemas and theatres, after authorities blamed soaring infection numbers on people refusing to have the vaccine. The restrictions will apply nationwide including on the Greek islands.

"After a year and a half, no one can claim ignorance about the coronavirus anymore," Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said in a televised address. "The country will not shut down again due to attitude adopted by certain people ... It's not Greece that's a danger, but unvaccinated Greeks."

Domino effect incoming.

Only 50,000ish first jabs here yesterday, I don't think we'll take it quite as far in the UK but I definitely expect lots of emotional blackmail.
 


dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,530
Burgess Hill
Domino effect incoming.

Only 50,000ish first jabs here yesterday, I don't think we'll take it quite as fast in the UK but I definitely expect lots of emotional blackmail.

Someone I know is an antivaxxer (despite being vulnerable with compromised immunity) but has said she’ll get the jab if she has to to get into Spoons. :nono:
 




Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,792
hassocks
Someone I know is an antivaxxer (despite being vulnerable with compromised immunity) but has said she’ll get the jab if she has to to get into Spoons. :nono:

I think we will se how many people are anti vaxxers in the coming weeks, I imagine most are just trying to be different.
 


Rugrat

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2011
10,224
Seaford
Greece follow France

In Greece, unvaccinated people will be banned from bars, cinemas and theatres, after authorities blamed soaring infection numbers on people refusing to have the vaccine. The restrictions will apply nationwide including on the Greek islands.

"After a year and a half, no one can claim ignorance about the coronavirus anymore," Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said in a televised address. "The country will not shut down again due to attitude adopted by certain people ... It's not Greece that's a danger, but unvaccinated Greeks."

Well done them. If there are medical reasons that prevent someone having it so be it, otherwise we should mandate as best we can imo.

From my limited experience (2!) those that aren't having it are those that just don't give a fukk, they know they are OK and don't give a toss about others, arguing that if someone is vaccinated they are safe.
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,792
hassocks
Well done them. If there are medical reasons that prevent someone having it so be it, otherwise we should mandate as best we can imo.

From my limited experience (2!) those that aren't having it are those that just don't give a fukk, they know they are OK and don't give a toss about others, arguing that if someone is vaccinated they are safe.

I must admit I have changed my mind on this, I was very anti now I am all for it for the reason I just posted above.
 






dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,530
Burgess Hill
I think this thread should now be closed - we have two polar opposite camps, who clearly will NEVER agree with the other side.

There has been some poor choice of language used by both sides and a general lack of empathy all round. I guess the easy answer would be to stop reading it, but that’s a bit like same answer as racist Tweets, they’re only hurtful if someone reads them - but we all know that isn’t true.

Let those who want Freedom Day have and enjoy it - while those on the other side of things should spend a bit more time away from here, myself included, to regroup our thoughts as to how best to keep ourselves and loved ones safe.

Deriding each other on a football forum probably isn’t doing much for the health or wellbeing of any concerned.

Take care all and be kind...!

[MENTION=33649]darkwolf666[/MENTION] and I have exchanged some PMs since this exchange - he’s keeping away from the thread for now as stated and accepts suggesting closing the thread was perhaps wrong, but it would be good if we could try to keep this thread respectful of all positions bearing in mind how people are affected in very different ways by Covid, lockdown and everything associated with it. I’ll try harder myself anyway.
 


Fungus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
May 21, 2004
7,155
Truro
.... All I can say is these people need to get their vaccines and practice good hygiene, just as they will have been doing for years to avoid influenza.

...

Did you ever decide to get vaccinated?
 


LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
48,416
SHOREHAM BY SEA
Well done them. If there are medical reasons that prevent someone having it so be it, otherwise we should mandate as best we can imo.

From my limited experience (2!) those that aren't having it are those that just don't give a fukk, they know they are OK and don't give a toss about others, arguing that if someone is vaccinated they are safe.

No thanks
 




LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
48,416
SHOREHAM BY SEA
[MENTION=33649]darkwolf666[/MENTION] and I have exchanged some PMs since this exchange - he’s keeping away from the thread for now as stated and accepts suggesting closing the thread was perhaps wrong, but it would be good if we could try to keep this thread respectful of all positions bearing in mind how people are affected in very different ways by Covid, lockdown and everything associated with it. I’ll try harder myself anyway.

It’s a subject that touches all of us…some more than others ..and he is right in saying their are polar views ..but obviously not to suggest closing a thread…he’ll know that ..and I’m sure that comment was born out of frustration..sensible decision by him
 


LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
48,416
SHOREHAM BY SEA
But not a legal requirement.

I can see where this is going:

"We are not here to tell people what to do"

"We have given clear guidance on...."

"Due to the unprecedented numbers it is neccessary that..."

"We are looking forward to easing restrictions again in....."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CAoQjRxqFwoTCNDBv6K-3vECFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

..but then released later in the evening

6B05D6C8-3A5D-48AD-9728-0235DFD892DE.jpeg
 


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