Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Seagull27]

So you genuinely believe life will be back to pre covid normality by Easter ? I admire your optimism, I really do.
I too have high hopes that a viable vaccine will be available, but the fact the government have recently said it will only be made available to over 50’s and the extreme vulnerable means it will still be in general circulation, which means we will still be living with restrictions for a fair while longer yet, I think it’s very unlikely they’ll just let us go back to normal.
Regardless of our vaccination program, the entire world needs to be vaccinated for international travel to resume, not to mention customer confidence.....this could take decades !

No, it won't be completely back to normal, but I think we'll know by then whether a vaccine will allow us to get there or not. But I would certainly expect some restrictions to be lifted by the time we have rolled the vaccine to healthcare workers and the vulnerable.

I haven't seen the government say they'll only give the vaccine to those groups - have you got a source? I know they would give it to those groups as a priority, but I'd be very surprised if it's not given to everyone eventually, as otherwise we won't eliminate it.

Agree on customer confidence, it'll be a while before some people are comfortable being in a large group of people even of it is safe. And yes, it could be a while for full international travel, it will depend on each countries response. But it's in the best interests of the governments for those things to return to normal to boost the economy, so I don't think they'll want to keep restrictions on those things unless it's entirely necessary.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[wehatepalace]

No, it won't be completely back to normal, but I think we'll know by then whether a vaccine will allow us to get there or not. But I would certainly expect some restrictions to be lifted by the time we have rolled the vaccine to healthcare workers and the vulnerable.

I haven't seen the government say they'll only give the vaccine to those groups - have you got a source? I know they would give it to those groups as a priority, but I'd be very surprised if it's not given to everyone eventually, as otherwise we won't eliminate it.

Agree on customer confidence, it'll be a while before some people are comfortable being in a large group of people even of it is safe. And yes, it could be a while for full international travel, it will depend on each countries response. But it's in the best interests of the governments for those things to return to normal to boost the economy, so I don't think they'll want to keep restrictions on those things unless it's entirely necessary.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

It was on the bbc news website last week (maybe week before) I can’t be arsed to trawl through, but it was with a senior official in charge of the vaccine task force, I quote her saying “make no mistake, this is an adult only vaccine for the over 50’s”

Anyway ignore my ramblings, I think I’m probably just having one of “those days” I’ve been ever the optimist from the start, but the whole things just grinding me down now.

 

[sydney]

There will be idiocy in all rules...

Back in the good ol’ days before Sunday opening, you could go to a newsagents and buy a copy of Mayfair (other top shelf magazines are available), but you couldn’t buy a bible...

There will always be anomalies.

The Welsh government have said they are going to look at the supermarket situation after the weekend, so I’m guessing they will soon be able to buy creme eggs!

The problem is, you jump to assumptions, presumably fuelled by too many Facebook links and decide you know people’s feelings based on a few posts.

If you had actually bothered to read what I have Previously said, which you haven’t, I am actually anti-lockdown and pro full support for the vulnerable... you carry on making a fool of yourself with your stupid analogies. At least it gave me a laugh this morning!

half the ****ing planet wasn't locked down in the good ol' days this goes a lot further than the UK mate ,it is ruining peoples lives in their 100's of millions around the globe.....Melbourne has been locked down for 4 months ffs , people are losing their businesses , livelihoods , marriages and sanity because about 800 old people have died ffs...!!, i am aware of your situation although i have not read your every post on the matter ......as i stated above , my mother died in May ....no visitors for the last 8 weeks of her life ....not one. Imagine if your loved one was hospitalised and you were not allowed to visit and the worst happened.

apologies for putting you on the wrong side of the lockdown debate.

glad to have lightened your mood momentarily.

 

[A1X]

[TWEET]1320078571369615362[/TWEET]

 

[wellquickwoody]

So for the entire period of lockdown nobody is allowed to buy anything other than food and drink? Absolutely ridiculous. All people will do is go on Amazon or Moonpig etc and that serves no good for the local economy.

How anyone can label this nonsense as common sense genuinely staggers me, people still need to buy other things and all this will do is make people go online, if you genuinely think someone who needs something other than food is going to think ‘oh I will wait for that local shop to open back up’ instead of just going online then I honestly have no words.

The point is that by buying online you have removed contact between many, many people. No contact between passenger and bus driver, no contact between hundreds of others in shopping centre, no touching of goods that somebody else then handles within minutes, no contact at the checkout. Just a parcel dropped at your door.

I am hating the lockdown that we have almost come to the end of, but at least it is effective.

 

[LamieRobertson]

[TWEET]1320078571369615362[/TWEET]

Lol...seems like a yougov poll...I’ve never met anyone who’s voted in the majority section...it’s all in the choice of question and how it’s phrased

 

[LamieRobertson]

The point is that by buying online you have removed contact between many, many people. No contact between passenger and bus driver, no contact between hundreds of others in shopping centre, no touching of goods that somebody else then handles within minutes, no contact at the checkout. Just a parcel dropped at your door.

I am hating the lockdown that we have almost come to the end of, but at least it is effective.

Looks as IF they might make a few changes

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1320274997575823360?s=21

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The problem with this virus is we are driving blind. The next 2, 3, possibly even 4 weeks of deaths are now locked in place. Today there will be people who don't even know they have the virus who are going to die of it in weeks to come:

The amount of virus in our body begins to peak the day before we begin to get sick.

But it takes at least a week before Covid progresses to the point where people need hospital treatment.

"This is a really brilliant evolutionary tactic - you don't go to bed, you go out and have a good time," says Prof Lehner.

So the virus is like a dangerous driver fleeing the scene - the virus has moved on to the next victim long before we either recover or die.

In stark terms, "the virus doesn't care" if you die, says Prof Lehner, "this is a hit and run virus".

Source: Covid: Why is coronavirus so deadly?​

It's very easy for anyone to sit at home and criticise governments for actions taken as our pretend decisions don't impact huge numbers of lives. Look back at this thread at the beginning of March - there's all manner of "what is the fuss all about?", "hardly anyone has it" and "only a handful of people have died - more people die of <insert ridiculous way to die here> than this coronavirus thing" comments. A few weeks later, as exponential growth does what it does, hundreds were dying day in and day out.




As I said in an earlier post - there is no painless route out of this. Trying to minimise harm across Covid-related health, all other health and a vast array of economic factors is ridiculously difficult.

It seems quite obvious earlier this year that the NHS, dealing with something unprecedented, could not maintain BAU services as well as large volumes of Covid-19 sickness. Indicators are they were getting back on track, albeit with a sizeable backlog, when Covid-19 started to take hold again.

The very best way for all other health concerns to receive the treatment they need and deserve is to have low levels of Covid-19 in the community. When levels rise, when anyone walking in the door could be infected, when those having treatments are highly vulnerable, when healthcare workers have to isolate in great number due to being infected themselves - something has to give. It's not just here in the UK, it's happened everywhere that has suffered with sizeable outbreaks.



Maybe, maybe not. Once again - weeks worth of hospitalisations and deaths are already baked in - we won't know how bad they are until they happen - there's nothing we can do about it now.



Yet almost every measure taken is broadly similar to those taken by almost every other country in the world. That's quite a consensus. I could be critical of the timing of some measures, but very few of the measures themselves.




I have no idea what point you are making here, but with current infection levels, it strikes me as sensible to have staff work in just the one home in order to try and prevent spread. I imagine this could present significant logistical problems for some homes, but surely we should aspire to take actions that can help keep people alive?



What areas should we be targeting?

Sorry about the delay in response.

It's very easy for anyone to sit at home and criticise governments for actions taken as our pretend decisions don't impact huge numbers of lives. Look back at this thread at the beginning of March - there's all manner of "what is the fuss all about?", "hardly anyone has it" and "only a handful of people have died - more people die of <insert ridiculous way to die here> than this coronavirus thing" comments. A few weeks later, as exponential growth does what it does, hundreds were dying day in and day out.

Its fair to say 100k people contracted Covid 19 daily during the peak, so for the majority of people its not an issue - and there is an argument( however grim ) that a large number of these people sadly would have died this year with another illness - as of a couple of weeks ago there has only been 340 deaths linked to flu this year, on average there is over 12k- why has there been a sudden drop in flu deaths? there has not - sadly the people that would have been taken by flu are now covid deaths.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...s-says-many-would-have-vulnerable-died-first/

We also had a lighter year on flu deaths last year- which may explain some of the excess deaths .

340 people under the age of 60 without pre exsisiting medical conditions have died from covid - The Who published a peer reviewed paper downgrading the death rates

I have no idea what point you are making here, but with current infection levels, it strikes me as sensible to have staff work in just the one home in order to try and prevent spread. I imagine this could present significant logistical problems for some homes, but surely we should aspire to take actions that can help keep people alive? - the point is this is only happening NOW - why was has this not already happened? 30% of covid outbreaks are in care homes - how much better would the death stats have been if this was done in march?

Hospital outbreaks are a mess as well.

Yet almost every measure taken is broadly similar to those taken by almost every other country in the world. That's quite a consensus. I could be critical of the timing of some measures, but very few of the measures themselves.

They have, and the response has been mixed - New Zealand and Peru both had strict lockdowns - one has a low death rate and the other the worst. Our peak was before lockdown came in.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ections-england-wales-hit-peak-days-lockdown/

Manchester is showing a decrease in cases before Tier 3 restrictions have begun.



As I said in an earlier post - there is no painless route out of this. Trying to minimise harm across Covid-related health, all other health and a vast array of economic factors is ridiculously difficult.

I agree - but I believe the way we are handling this at the moment will see more damage than the Virus.

Think about how much money we have spent - I am fully aware of the difficulties in shielding- but the sums of money spent could have made it possible - as it is now, I think it is too late for this tactic and we have to continue down this path.

[COLOR="#000000"]It seems quite obvious earlier this year that the NHS, dealing with something unprecedented, could not maintain BAU services as well as large volumes of Covid-19 sickness. Indicators are they were getting back on track, albeit with a sizeable backlog, when Covid-19 started to take hold again. [/COLOR]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ice-of-protecting-nhs-from-covid-19-7n62kkbtb

We have to have a full investigation of what has gone on in the NHS after this - The staff are incredible people, but the management need to be looked at.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Can I phone a friend - oh! sorry wrong game show, beside which my friend was 83, which is now apparently a dispensable age!

Sadly it is when compared to some of the young parents dying - even older people have said this.

but again, no one is suggesting anything but shielding.

 

[beorhthelm]

A couple of questions to the pro lockdown part of society, how long are you prepared to live with these restrictions, and allow our government to have such sweeping powers, 6 months ? A year ? 2 ? As long as it takes, possibly forever?

And do you honestly believe we’ll ever enjoy the same freedoms we did pre covid again ?

Please don’t take this, that I’m anti restrictions, as that isn’t the case, but I am becoming increasingly worried for the future, and that governments around the world may use this as an opportunity to reign us all in a bit, whilst making their emergency powers slightly more permanent.

what freedom is it you think government want to permanently take away?

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Ok, as you don't want to answer let's play a game.

500,000 die in exchange for the lifting of all restrictions. Deal or no deal?

Interesting to see how many non covid related deaths will occur over the next decade due to the actions taken, 1 000 000 ?

 

[wehatepalace]

what freedom is it you think government want to permanently take away?

That I don’t know the answer to, if you’d asked me the same question this time last year I’d have laughed in your face and told you what a stupid question it was, now, nothing seems to be beyond the realms of possibilities!
What does concern me is that the government have power to install rules on the country without debate, they had the opportunity put that right in parliament recently and chose not to, that concerns me deeply.
Hopefully this time next year my fears will prove to be unfounded and I give you full permission to bounce this and ridicule me and I will happily take the abuse !

 

[e77]

no , of course not but of those 45 k deaths how many are attributable to corona alone ...?? a virus that knocks off aged people with underlying health issues or known comorbidities is nothing new , this particular virus was grossly miss managed at the source and has made a lot of already grossly rich people even more rich, you cannot go to the shop to buy a creme egg but you can go fox hunting or jump on a plane to Turkey .....it really is a very , very bad joke

With you on the mismanagement thing (with a couple of exceptions globally) although to the best of my knowledge you can buy a Cream Egg (assuming they are in the shops).

There are 45 thousand people who died having been tested positive for Coronavirus. In fact later on this was reduced to having a positive test in the 28 days before dying.

Now if you look at this graph (source BMJ) you will see up to about June much more people were dying than normal, most of which were COVID related (as for the rest presumably it was either undiagnosed COVID patients or caused by the NHS being overrun or mote likely a combination of both).



You try and make it sound like a nasty seasonal bug that picks off the odd pensioner. It is much worse than that.

 

[e77]

What an obtuse reply !
He clearly isn’t saying that at all !

TBH I am not sure what his point is other than a generic 'it isn't as bad as everyone is making out'.

 

[e77]

A couple of questions to the pro lockdown part of society, how long are you prepared to live with these restrictions, and allow our government to have such sweeping powers, 6 months ? A year ? 2 ? As long as it takes, possibly forever?

And do you honestly believe we’ll ever enjoy the same freedoms we did pre covid again ?

Please don’t take this, that I’m anti restrictions, as that isn’t the case, but I am becoming increasingly worried for the future, and that governments around the world may use this as an opportunity to reign us all in a bit, whilst making their emergency powers slightly more permanent.

Not entirely sure anyone is really pro-lockdown!

Full freedoms will return as and when it is safe to do so. You know why? Because the people who are currently supporting them as it is the best thing for their friends, family, community and country would protest at the ballot box and, if need be, on the streets if necessary.

 

[e77]

Interesting to see how many non covid related deaths will occur over the next decade due to the actions taken, 1 000 000 ?

I don't know but there will be a damn sight more if the hospitals are full with Covid-19 patients and have to decide who lives or dies.

 

[beorhthelm]

That I don’t know the answer to, if you’d asked me the same question this time last year I’d have laughed in your face and told you what a stupid question it was, now, nothing seems to be beyond the realms of possibilities!
What does concern me is that the government have power to install rules on the country without debate, they had the opportunity put that right in parliament recently and chose not to, that concerns me deeply.
Hopefully this time next year my fears will prove to be unfounded and I give you full permission to bounce this and ridicule me and I will happily take the abuse !

so nothing specific. you worry that rules can come in without debate, when only recently there was debate. not really a meaningful claim is it.

 

[wehatepalace]

Not entirely sure anyone is really pro-lockdown!

Full freedoms will return as and when it is safe to do so. You know why? Because the people who are currently supporting them as it is the best thing for their friends, family, community and country would protest at the ballot box and, if need be, on the streets if necessary.

Maybe pro lockdown was perhaps the wrong description, there are certainly people out there thriving on the drama of it all, and there are people who quietly go about their business as respectfully as they can, I fit into the last category as I’m sure most people do, it remains to be seen the lasting legacy of all this but I’m almost certain it will be a very different world purely down to the fact that as a direct consequence of the restrictions, the poor have got poorer and the rich richer, there is no disputing that.
It breaks my heart seeing people I know losing elderly relatives to covid, but equally as heartbreaking is seeing young families losing their homes and resorting to asking friends and neighbours for food because they’ve fallen through the gaps when the government were handing out state grants and have used up their life savings to live !

 

[wehatepalace]

so nothing specific. you worry that rules can come in without debate, when only recently there was debate. not really a meaningful claim is it.

A debate that they decided to carry on ruling without debate !
You’re one of those chaps that likes to argue a point for the sake of it aren’t you ?
I’ll leave you to it, have a nice afternoon x

 

[Rugrat]

Maybe pro lockdown was perhaps the wrong description, there are certainly people out there thriving on the drama of it all, and there are people who quietly go about their business as respectfully as they can

That suggest we all fit into 2 groups.

IMO there's at least one other group, those that don't give a rats arse about anyone else and just stick two fingers up at the whole thing. From my experience they are a fair sized minority and if it weren't for them the vast majority of the population could fit into your second category