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Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread



dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,622
Burgess Hill
Interesting outline of plans in Portugal - I'd expect something similar :

António Costa wants a gradual lifting of the existing confinement measures - "every fifteenth days"

With the motto "maximum restraint and minimum disruption" in the daily lives of citizens, the prime minister expects May and June to be the months of "transition to progressive deconfinement", but underlines that this does not mean a return to the life we had before the epidemic outbreak, given that is likely that, the new coronavirus will be a lingering part of our lives for at least a year, if not much longer and probably without a vaccine or treatment.
´We all have to realize that for the next year or 18 months we are not going to be living like we were before February,’
If the current round of social-distancing measures works, the pandemic may ebb enough for things to return to a semblance of normalcy. Our lives will be shaped by the choices made and we must be prepared so we do not get caught up in a similar situation.
“If the first phase was designed to contain the pandemic without killing the economy, now the priority is to start reviving the economy, without leaving the pandemic out of control.´For this reason, we must move gradually, with a cadence, in my opinion, every fifteen days´, affirmed António Costa, in response to a question by the deputy general secretary of the Socialist Party, José Luís Carneiro, about a possible “progressive opening” of the economy.
António Costa added that this opening “must be progressive, sector by sector, activity by activity, avoiding crowding at certain points or places, with critical management of the public transport network, with improved supply and lagged demand, through time lag, "to have the months of May and June as months of transition to progressive deconfinement ".
Costa said the government could announce a calendar and program for relaxing the lockdown on April 30, two days before the current state of emergency is due to end. Small neighborhood shops would likely open first, followed by larger high street stores and then malls, he said.
But he was cautious about the prospects of Portugal’s vital international tourism sector being opened up in time for the peak summer season.
“I don’t anticipate that the EU’s external borders will be opened that early, as for the internal borders there’s no target fixed for opening them,” Costa said. “This is a year when we have to look to the domestic market.” Tourism accounted for 14 percent of the country’s GDP last year.
He also warned there will “certainly” be restrictions on beach access even in August. “We can’t have crowding. City halls and port authorities will have to take the necessary measures so that we can go to the beach without crowds forming,” he said.
Costa also suggested a gradual return to normality could involve a limited restart of cultural and sporting activities, for example cinemas opening with attendance restricted to every third seat and every other row; or football games in empty or partially filled stadiums. Masks will be obligatory in schools and on public transport.
António Costa also referred that the measures that were taken by the Government gave the country “enormous capital for the future when we have to relaunch our economy and reaffirm our credibility as a viable country for international partners and for the attraction of investment that is fundamental so that we can continue our trajectory of modernization and creation of better qualified and better paid jobs ”.
 




Notters

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2003
24,896
Guiseley
So options are:

1. Continue as we are until a vaccine is available. Anywhere from 6 to 18 months depending on what you read.
2. Open up and let Hurd mentality take hold
3. Isolate the vulnerable group (self isolation) and the rest go about a normal life.

Personally I think option 3 is the more likely however I’m not in the vulnerable group nor are family members nor do I have elderly parents so very easy for me to say.

I don’t think option 1 will work as people will not be able to continue as is for month on month.

Option 2 is the quickest way out but would be utter carnage so is a no go.


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Option 3 would still be carnage as a lot of younger people still need hospital treatment, though far more of them survive it.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
28,274
Not sure about your locality, but increasing numbers of takeaways are opening. Small mercies.

And, they are adapting. My local independent micro pub, Brooksteed Alehouse, is delivering pre ordered beer and adding tie-ins to some restaurants whereby you collect oven ready food from small independent eateries at their premises.
 




Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
20,764
Eastbourne
Any tips for explaining things to idiots. Just had a discussion with my sister in law who thinks they should not bother with testing the vaccine, get their head out of their backsides and start vaccinating people

Maybe mention that the vaccine unless proved, is more like a poison. That could help?
 








Albion Dan

Banned
Jul 8, 2003
11,125
Peckham
Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Dicsussion Thread

Where do we reach the point where it’s more detrimental to social distance and live in fear of the virus than it is to somehow try to get some kind of normality?

. :(

Imo we reach that point in the not to distant future. Talk of being in this type of scenario for potentially a year is beyond crazy and will have society on its knees for decades. Some of the proposed measures if more than a few more months are going to be far far worse and cause many more deaths through widespread poverty than the current disease itself.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,399
Withdean area
Imo we reach that point in the not to distant future. Talk of being in this type of scenario for potentially a year is beyond crazy and will have society on its knees for decades. Some of the proposed measures if more than a few more months are going to be far far worse and cause many more deaths through widespread poverty than the current disease itself.

I would imagine the long-term distancing referred to, would be for the vulnerable and over 65’s. As well as we won’t see packed cinemas and sports stadia for at least a year or two. 30,000 at a game of football would be perfect for coronavirus.
 








Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Chris Witty according to 1 tabloid if you believe them is saying the rate of new infections isn't coming down as they expected

I'm not entirely convinced by the "half-ass lockdown" strategy, both forcing you to spend time with your family/household while there also seem to be quite a lot of interaction with strangers. I think either you do a very hard lockdown - Wuhan style - or just social distancing - Sweden/South Korea style.

Here, yes there is a fair chance you will be spreading it to strangers, but there's also a fair chance to avoid getting infected if anyone in your household gets sick since you are unlikely to spend 20 hours a day in the same apartment. Wuhan-style: yes you infect your household but others will most likely be fine because if you went a step to far or had a nice chat with a friend in the park, you'd be disintegrated by the 5G tesla coils (...I'm joking my dear yuppies, lower your pitchforks).

From what I'm hearing you seem to be going down some odd middle road and it looks a bit shaky.
 


Rugrat

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2011
10,224
Seaford
I'm not entirely convinced by the "half-ass lockdown" strategy, both forcing you to spend time with your family/household while there also seem to be quite a lot of interaction with strangers. I think either you do a very hard lockdown - Wuhan style - or just social distancing - Sweden/South Korea style.

Here, yes there is a fair chance you will be spreading it to strangers, but there's also a fair chance to avoid getting infected if anyone in your household gets sick since you are unlikely to spend 20 hours a day in the same apartment. Wuhan-style: yes you infect your household but others will most likely be fine because if you went a step to far or had a nice chat with a friend in the park, you'd be disintegrated by the 5G tesla coils (...I'm joking my dear yuppies, lower your pitchforks).

From what I'm hearing you seem to be going down some odd middle road and it looks a bit shaky.

Has Sweden got it right do you think? My step son lives in Stockholm and definitely has a far more relaxed attitude ... but the numbers don't appear to suggest that what's going on there is any more effective than here. Indeed, as mentioned elsewhere there's an argument to say it's worse (but I won't get involved in that)

Sweden.JPG
 


BN41Albion

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2017
6,841
I'm not entirely convinced by the "half-ass lockdown" strategy, both forcing you to spend time with your family/household while there also seem to be quite a lot of interaction with strangers. I think either you do a very hard lockdown - Wuhan style - or just social distancing - Sweden/South Korea style.

Here, yes there is a fair chance you will be spreading it to strangers, but there's also a fair chance to avoid getting infected if anyone in your household gets sick since you are unlikely to spend 20 hours a day in the same apartment. Wuhan-style: yes you infect your household but others will most likely be fine because if you went a step to far or had a nice chat with a friend in the park, you'd be disintegrated by the 5G tesla coils (...I'm joking my dear yuppies, lower your pitchforks).

From what I'm hearing you seem to be going down some odd middle road and it looks a bit shaky.

You were very critical of Sweden's approach until recently. What's changed out of interest?!
 




BN41Albion

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2017
6,841
Imo we reach that point in the not to distant future. Talk of being in this type of scenario for potentially a year is beyond crazy and will have society on its knees for decades. Some of the proposed measures if more than a few more months are going to be far far worse and cause many more deaths through widespread poverty than the current disease itself.

Exactly. And just locking up the over 65/70s for god knows how long would surely cause as many, if not more deaths amongst those in that age bracket indirectly, through other physical or (more likely) mental health issues.
 




D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
Has Sweden got it right do you think? My step son lives in Stockholm and definitely has a far more relaxed attitude ... but the numbers don't appear to suggest that what's going on there is any more effective than here. Indeed, as mentioned elsewhere there's an argument to say it's worse (but I won't get involved in that)

View attachment 122661

I don't think it's working.. Seems to me the numbers are getting worse in Sweden at the moment.
 


Rugrat

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2011
10,224
Seaford
I don't think it's working.. Seems to me the numbers are getting worse in Sweden at the moment.

I'm also looking at Spain (as we have a place there) which have far tougher lockdown conditions, but even they seem to be struggling. Although off their peak, new cases seem to be stuck around 4000 a day. I can only put this down to a combination of the poor health workers (25% appears to be the rate) and some that aren't taking the measures as seriously as they should. Dunno it's worrying though
 




D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
I'm also looking at Spain (as we have a place there) which have far tougher lockdown conditions, but even they seem to be struggling. Although off their peak, new cases seem to be stuck around 4000 a day. I can only put this down to a combination of the poor health workers (25% appears to be the rate) and some that aren't taking the measures as seriously as they should. Dunno it's worrying though

I have a place in Spain too and I don't get what's happening in Spain either. Far stricter than us over the lock down, but still registering 4,000 a day. It is worrying. Italy that looked like hell on earth 8 weeks ago, seems to be doing much better.
 


Albion Dan

Banned
Jul 8, 2003
11,125
Peckham
Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Dicsussion Thread

I don't think it's working.. Seems to me the numbers are getting worse in Sweden at the moment.

But does that really matter if the economy remains in some sort of shape and the huge amount of deaths and degradation in living standards resultant from a disaster recession and isolation are avoided? I think we need to get pragmatic and ask which is the lesser long term evil for greater society. The social and economic impact of the current strategy if continued beyond summer will be many many times worse than if you had just let Cv19 play out imo.
 


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