Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[CHAPPERS]

Omicron isn't the only variant doing the rounds though, is it. A big Delta wave on the back of waning immunity was also happening, so hopefully this push for boosters can put an end to it. I just wish Johnson could have got the message with a bit more notice for those involved with the push but hey ho that's just him isn't it.

 

[The Clamp]

I am now of the opinion the only way forward with Covid is mandatory vaccination and severe penalties for those who refuse to comply.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I am now of the opinion the only way forward with Covid is mandatory vaccination and severe penalties for those who refuse to comply.

Strongly disagree.

Roll passports out for everything.

Or anti vax lockdown

 

[The Clamp]

Strongly disagree.

Roll passports out for everything.

Or anti vax lockdown

Happy to try the anti vax lockdown/passport first. But we’re either serious about sorting this out or we’re not.

However, once we basically put anti vaxxers on indefinite lockdown, I’d say they will change their values overnight.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Happy to try the anti vax lockdown/passport first. But we’re either serious about sorting this out or we’re not.

However, once we basically put anti vaxxers on indefinite lockdown, I’d say they will change their values overnight.

Many did here in Greece. But by no means all of them.

 

[Yoda]

I think the issue with Omicron isn’t so much the CFR as the hospitality rate, and the rate at which people are getting it.

It does seem to be milder, particularly the very serious cases, but there is still a very reasonable concern it will cripple the NHS due to the sheer number of people needing some kind of medical intervention, although as you say a worst case scenario of 700 deaths/day is a very serious issue.

You're forgetting one thing though. How many of those admissions in South Africa are incidental cases. At one point it was 75%, with only 25% being for actual Covid complications. (Not sure if it's still carrying on at this figure or not)

 

[A1X]

I am now of the opinion the only way forward with Covid is mandatory vaccination and severe penalties for those who refuse to comply.

I do find myself easing toward a similar mindset TBH. I could understand (in a way) some form of vaccine scepticism in the early days on a safety basis, but it now seems abundantly clear that the vaccine is perfectly safe in virtually every circumstance. Indeed it's amusing to hear people who claim we should live with Covid with no restrictions because "the risk is minimal" baulk at the much lower risk associated with the vaccine as their excuse for not getting it. I see no valid reason not to have got your vaccine other than in a very small number of extreme medical circumstances.

In almost every other sphere, people who cannot conform to society are excluded from it. Hence why we exclude drivers who break the rules, bar people from football stadiums who racially abuse people and have prisons in the first place for the more serious offenders. It's time that those willingly choose to not participate in society through vaccination start to feel some heat for it.

 

[highflyer]

I think the issue with Omicron isn’t so much the CFR as the hospitality rate, and the rate at which people are getting it.

It does seem to be milder, particularly the very serious cases, but there is still a very reasonable concern it will cripple the NHS due to the sheer number of people needing some kind of medical intervention, although as you say a worst case scenario of 700 deaths/day is a very serious issue.

Am I the only one thinking that while it does look like it could cause a very big problem, it will presumably last for a relatively short period of time compared to previous waves?

I mean I barely know ANYONE that hasn't either had it in last few weeks or has it right now!

(I also don't know anyone that has been seriously ill with it, but I mainly mix in sensible, well vaccinated, circles)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

British visitors banned from France for tourism or business.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...om-france-amid-rise-in-omicron-cases-12497105

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I do find myself easing toward a similar mindset TBH. I could understand (in a way) some form of vaccine scepticism in the early days on a safety basis, but it now seems abundantly clear that the vaccine is perfectly safe in virtually every circumstance. Indeed it's amusing to hear people who claim we should live with Covid with no restrictions because "the risk is minimal" baulk at the much lower risk associated with the vaccine as their excuse for not getting it. I see no valid reason not to have got your vaccine other than in a very small number of extreme medical circumstances.

In almost every other sphere, people who cannot conform to society are excluded from it. Hence why we exclude drivers who break the rules, bar people from football stadiums who racially abuse people and have prisons in the first place for the more serious offenders. It's time that those willingly choose to not participate in society through vaccination start to feel some heat for it.

Do you know what’s worse than that?

People that “just haven’t found the time yet”

 

[pb21]

Am I the only one thinking that while it does look like it could cause a very big problem, it will presumably last for a relatively short period of time compared to previous waves?

No Chris Whitty said something along these lines this AM

He estimates that Omicron will peak incredibly fast and it could come down faster than previous peaks, he says.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...08c02cca9b47ec#block-61bb1ac48f08c02cca9b47ec

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I’m increasingly of the opinion that this is going to be the case. As I posted on the press conference thread yesterday, if you assume a median 20 days from case to death, the case fatality rate in South Africa appears to have dropped from 3.9% to 0.7%, previous spike compared with this one. That’s 5.6x lower.

South Africa has a much higher CFR than the UK due to less comprehensive case recording and lower vaccination rates, so extrapolated to the UK that would take us from 0.4% to 0.07%.

Very early days and small data samples, and no doubt this is a very simplistic way of looking at things. But anecdotally, I think back to Italy at the start of the pandemic and all the cries of “this will be you in three weeks”, which were absolutely bang on, sadly. I’m not seeing those kind of horror stories pouring out of South Africa currently.

This isn’t necessarily to make light of the situation; the more I think about it the more serious I believe it is. If we do indeed find ourselves in a scenario of 1m cases per day (though I’m not sure whether this figure is based on reported cases or estimated cases, I assume the latter) that would in theory translate to 700 deaths per day. However, we do have healthy vaccination rates, and now almost half the population has had three jabs, and so that again has to give us some further advantages over Omicron.

We’ll have a much better idea in about a week, as this is a fast-moving situation. Be cautious, be sensible, but don’t get too down just yet, is my take.

BritCard
@LoftusSteve
In London in the last week hospitalisations have increased by 169 (up to Dec 14th).

But of those 169 only 58 are being treated primarily for Covid.

66% of all "hospitalisations" in the last week are incidental

 

[nicko31]

I do find myself easing toward a similar mindset TBH. I could understand (in a way) some form of vaccine scepticism in the early days on a safety basis, but it now seems abundantly clear that the vaccine is perfectly safe in virtually every circumstance. Indeed it's amusing to hear people who claim we should live with Covid with no restrictions because "the risk is minimal" baulk at the much lower risk associated with the vaccine as their excuse for not getting it. I see no valid reason not to have got your vaccine other than in a very small number of extreme medical circumstances.

In almost every other sphere, people who cannot conform to society are excluded from it. Hence why we exclude drivers who break the rules, bar people from football stadiums who racially abuse people and have prisons in the first place for the more serious offenders. It's time that those willingly choose to not participate in society through vaccination start to feel some heat for it.

I'm not a fan of mandatory vaccination

But am in favour of vaccine passports for non-essential indoor activity such leisure and hospitality + long distance travel until we are out of the pandemic.

Exclusions for essential shops and travelling to place of work / study on public transport

The country can't afford more lockdowns and our free to use health system is under huge strain, we've suffered enough. If you don't want to play ball that's fine, but in the short to medium term your life will be restricted

And if you don't like it get protesting while you're still allowed

 

[nicko31]

It’s what hysteria by our PM does.

We're seeing the fallout of Johnson's terrible relationship with our near neighbour. Ordinary folk who have friends and family on the near continent are the sacrificial lambs, another screwed Christmas for some. Johnson is a prick, but Macron can be one too...

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

We're seeing the fallout of Johnson's terrible relationship with our near neighbour. Ordinary folk who have friends and family on the near continent are the sacrificial lambs, another screwed Christmas for some. Johnson is a prick, but Macron can be one too...

Sorry, you can’t go on national TV and use terms like tidal wave and show absolutely no level headedness and not expect our nearest neighbour to react.

I’m with Macron on this, Johnson is a complete ****.

 

[crodonilson]

The Queen cancelling her pre Xmas plans and staying at home. Hopefully if the people of the UK won't listen to Chris Whitty they will follow Her Majesty's lead.

 

[worthingseagull123]

The Queen cancelling her pre Xmas plans and staying at home. Hopefully if the people of the UK won't listen to Chris Whitty they will follow Her Majesty's lead.

Yeah right.

 

[Fungus]

I am now of the opinion the only way forward with Covid is mandatory vaccination and severe penalties for those who refuse to comply.

In the grand scheme of things, it wouldn’t break the bank if we gave everyone £100 for every jab they have. Wouldn’t that be more effective?

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

The Queen cancelling her pre Xmas plans and staying at home. Hopefully if the people of the UK won't listen to Chris Whitty they will follow Her Majesty's lead.

Yes, Her Majesty The Queen, that famous scientist.

 

[A1X]

Apologies if fixtures