Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[e77]

It's one single UK based poster on NSC who vocalises not having the vaccine and that's reflected in the national numbers, the UK has one of the highest uptakes in the world for adults. I'm pretty sure everyone else on these threads has been vaccinated and followed rules during lockdown.

I think you're confusing this with views on voluntary mask wearing and social distancing since they stopped being mandatory.

Fair comment, although he is a vocal one who does take up a lot of oxygen in the debate.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Fair comment, although he is a vocal one who does take up a lot of oxygen in the debate.

I do see what you're saying. I suspect this is the same as the "NSC is leftwing/NSC is rightwing" debates. When I read these threads I think the vast majority are arguing for masks and restrictions!

It's probably quite an even split in reality.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

South Africa is going back on to the red list

 

[Solid at the back]

They've acted quick on this one, flights suspended from midday tomorrow. When Delta emerged they gave like a weeks notice.

 

[sydney]

Gotta love some good old-fashioned Aussie bluntness...

Aboriginal elders, health organisations and frontline workers in the Australia’s Northern Territory’s Covid outbreak have lashed out at false information about public health measures on social media, with the NT chief minister blaming the misinformation on “tinfoil hat wearing tossers, sitting in their parents’ basements in Florida”.

unfortunately there have been marches in all the major cities with a rumoured 450 k turn out in Melbourne 2 weekends ago and 80 k in Perth which is some turn out for a largely , politically apathetic , disinterested population. A reported 3300 nurses will be stood down in January for not getting vaxed , there is a media ban on reporting on such stuff so difficult to ratify.......there is a lot of wubbish on the internet.

 

[Dibdab]

New variant new schmarient as if we didn’t all see that coming.

 

[nicko31]

They've acted quick on this one, flights suspended from midday tomorrow. When Delta emerged they gave like a weeks notice.

Credit to SA scientists for identifying this one, credit to UK gov for acting fast

In 2-3 weeks we will know if its really a problem. In the meantime the developed world really needs to expedite the sharing of vaccines to the global south

 

[crodonilson]

New variant already been discovered in Israel, people had visited Malawi, so think it is much more widespread in Southern Africa than people think and is almost inevitably already circulating in the UK. Really is time for the government to step up and revert to plan B and be proactive rather than reactive for a change.

 

[dazzer6666]

New variant already been discovered in Israel, people had visited Malawi, so think it is much more widespread in Southern Africa than people think and is almost inevitably already circulating in the UK. Really is time for the government to step up and revert to plan B and be proactive rather than reactive for a change.

Think they have been. Flights already currently suspended, quarantine requirements being implemented for known impacted countries….what else would you suggest at this stage (recognising no cases have been identified in the UK yet) ?

 

[beorhthelm]

still no specific news from expert scientist, lots of speculation and "might", "could" qualifications. its been recorded in SA for a couple of weeks and there doesnt seem to be an upsurge in cases or deaths, though its become dominant in sequenced samples.

 

[sydney]

Credit to SA scientists for identifying this one, credit to UK gov for acting fast

In 2-3 weeks we will know if its really a problem. In the meantime the developed world really needs to expedite the sharing of vaccines to the global south

ffs mate....!!! they won't take it ...!!

 

[Billy the Fish]

Good thread about the new variant, this guy is pretty reliable and non-alarmist!

One thing that I don't think he mentions, SA's population is only 25% fully vaxxed so it's not surprising that it spread very quickly if it's got a genetic advantage over Delta.

[TWEET]1463956686075580421[/TWEET]

 

[A1X]

Think they have been. Flights already currently suspended, quarantine requirements being implemented for known impacted countries….what else would you suggest at this stage (recognising no cases have been identified in the UK yet) ?

Masks.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://twitter.com/DataDrivenMD/status/1464268110052007937?s=20

Get vaccinated. Pretty simple really.

 

[Weststander]

Credit to SA scientists for identifying this one, credit to UK gov for acting fast

In 2-3 weeks we will know if its really a problem. In the meantime the developed world really needs to expedite the sharing of vaccines to the global south

and the South to use them before they expire, vaccine hesitancy is huge.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-25/who-vaccine-hesitancy-persists-among-africa-health-workers

 

[dazzer6666]

Masks.

Unless there is a national mandate, with enforcement, that won’t work. They are ‘required’ on TFL now but maybe 80% are ignoring the requirement. They are mandatory in South Africa……….

 

[Pondicherry]

https://twitter.com/DataDrivenMD/status/1464268110052007937?s=20

Get vaccinated. Pretty simple really.

I'm not saying you are wrong but its a lot more complicated than that. A very large UK study in the Lancet published on 29/10/2021 showed the following:

There is no statistically significant difference in the likelihood of you catching Covid from someone who enters your household who has Covid, between vaccinated (28% chance) and unvaccinated (38% chance) individuals.

Overall the SAR (SARS attack rate) is 26% whether you have been vaccinated or not. Just to be clear, you have a 26% chance of being attacked by COVID whether you are vaccinated or not.

 

[Weststander]

I'm not saying you are wrong but its a lot more complicated than that. A very large UK study in the Lancet published on 29/10/2021 showed the following:

There is no statistically significant difference in the likelihood of you catching Covid from someone who enters your household who has Covid, between vaccinated (28% chance) and unvaccinated (38% chance) individuals.

Overall the SAR (SARS attack rate) is 26% whether you have been vaccinated or not. Just to be clear, you have a 26% chance of being attacked by COVID whether you are vaccinated or not.

Except.

You can’t have too many antibodies. First class debunking by proper virologists and immunologists this week of the hearsay from Dr Google eg “antibodies from having caught Covid in the past, are superior to that from the vaccines”.

Having the vaccines massively helps your body’s response to later catching Covid, even if for the second time.

Thereby saving lives, preventing serious illness, preventing hospital workers lives being put at risk and helping to keep hospitals functioning as places where folk receive early C diagnosis and treatment, et al.

 

[Pondicherry]

Except.

You can’t have too many antibodies. First class debunking by proper virologists and immunologists this week of the hearsay from Dr Google eg “antibodies from having caught Covid in the past, are superior to that from the vaccines”.

Having the vaccines massively helps your body’s response to later catching Covid, even if for the second time.

Thereby saving lives, preventing serious illness, preventing hospital workers lives being put at risk and helping to keep hospitals functioning as places where folk receive early C diagnosis and treatment, et al.

Except that may not be true according to the UK Health Security Agency. They observe:

(iii) recent observations from UK Health Security Agency
(UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire
infection following 2 doses of vaccination.

What this is saying is that if you have already had two doses of vaccine that trigger an S antibody response, you will produce lower levels of N antibodies. N antibodies are the bodies natural response to encountering the whole Coronavirus. S antibodies are the bodies response to encountering the part of the Coronavirus that is in the vaccine (the spike protein). You can read the whole report here: https://assets.publishing.service.g...27511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf

I am not aware of any studies comparing the effectiveness and longevity of S antibodies vs N antibodies. What we do know is that S antibody effectiveness decline rapidly after 5 months and is non existent at around 220 days.

In summary, can you have too many antibodies? Possibly.

Also its helpful to quote sources.

 

[Weststander]

Except that may not be true according to the UK Health Security Agency. They observe:

(iii) recent observations from UK Health Security Agency
(UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire
infection following 2 doses of vaccination.

What this is saying is that if you have already had two doses of vaccine that trigger an S antibody response, you will produce lower levels of N antibodies. N antibodies are the bodies natural response to encountering the whole Coronavirus. S antibodies are the bodies response to encountering the part of the Coronavirus that is in the vaccine (the spike protein). You can read the whole report here: https://assets.publishing.service.g...27511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf

https://www.immunology.org/coronavirus/connect-coronavirus-public-engagement-resources/covid-immunity-natural-infection-vaccine
The UK-CIC is looking at what parts of the immune system are involved in generating a protective response against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, as well as after vaccination. It's likely that for most people vaccination against COVID-19 will induce more effective and longer lasting immunity than that induced by natural infection with the virus. Even if you've had COVID-19, you're recommended to get the vaccine because it will boost whatever immunity you have from natural infection.


I am not aware of any studies comparing the effectiveness and longevity of S antibodies vs N antibodies. What we do know is that S antibody effectiveness decline rapidly after 5 months and is non existent at around 220 days.

In summary, can you have too many antibodies? Possibly.

Also its helpful to quote sources.

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.

https://www.immunology.org/coronavirus/connect-coronavirus-public-engagement-resources/covid-immunity-natural-infection-vaccine
The UK-CIC is looking at what parts of the immune system are involved in generating a protective response against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, as well as after vaccination. It's likely that for most people vaccination against COVID-19 will induce more effective and longer lasting immunity than that induced by natural infection with the virus. Even if you've had COVID-19, you're recommended to get the vaccine because it will boost whatever immunity you have from natural infection.

So when immunologists were asked on both R4 and Jeremy Vine by people opposed to vaccines, “from what they heard, having previously had Covid, they were safer than vaccinated people, what’s the point”, the answers from the experts were a clear “no, you can’t have too many antibodies, please get vaccinated”.