Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[birthofanorange]

Sounds to me like you want it to be "absurd" but you cant explain why it is.

If you're being deliberately obtuse, there's no point in trying to explain it to you, just as it would be equally pointless if you genuinely think you're making a valid argument.

In either scenario, an explanation would be an exercise in futility, so I'll leave it with you.

 

[Weststander]

Personally, I respected [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION]'s views, which generally did not accord with mine on vaccines.

I loath the likes of Icke, Shemirani ... opportunistic shite stirrers, peddling lies that have influenced folk on vaccines.

If [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION]'s posts encouraged others not to vaccinate and/or passed on misinformation then [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] is correct here imho.

I didn't see that myself, but I only read random posts.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I'm with the bossman on this one - he's persistently and repeatedly claimed that he 'doesn't need it because......', flying in the face of increasingly unanimous and data-supported views and evidence and arguing with anyone who suggests otherwise - if even one person reads that and thinks the same, doesn't get jabbed and then ends up very ill as a result it's a bad outcome.

The vaccine effectiveness in preventing death and serious illness is finally getting the profile it should have (and the opposite of course - the relative propensity of the unvaccinated to get seriously ill or worse, plus the impact of that on services). If he or anyone else suggesting they didn't need the vaccine was able to support his view with unequivocal facts then fair enough, but I don't recall much of that

I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] might be influencing anyone.

90ish% of adults are vaccinated now, I'd be astounded if out of the remaining 10ish% there's one single person on the planet who is still wavering after 6 months of having access to the jabs and is willing to let the personal opinion of a faceless character sway their decision. That opinion has also been widely rubbished by the rest of the community.

IMHO it's always better to debate than to censor.

That said, it's Bozza's forum and rules and that should be justification enough.

 

[e77]

At the end of the day it is a privately run football message board that allows conversations on other topics at the pleasure of the person running it. If he wants to limit the scope of them then that is his prerogative.

At the risk of being accused of being a 'sheeple' and 'not questioning what I am being told' by some the absolutely overwhelming weight of medical and scientific opinion and evidence is that everyone who is eligible should get a vaccine to protect themselves and, more importantly, others. If you disagree with that it might be your personal choice but you need to acknowledge you are in a, admittedly sizeable, minority and realise not everyone is willing to offer a platform for your views.

 

[n1 gull]

Test (checking whether I'm banned)

Edit: seems like I'm not. Bozza probably hasn't got round to it yet. His board, his decision. I don't agree with the decision, but it's not up to me.

If this happens it will be massive shame.

Interesting poster who never gets personal or rude.

This is science surely we can discuss it?

Censorship is a very slippery slope

 

[birthofanorange]

Seeing as this could be my last opportunity to speak on this matter, I would like to clarify a few points.

- I have reiterated time and time again that I'm very much pro vaccination, especially for vulnerable groups and over 50's.
- I have never intended at any point to discourage anyone to be vaccinated, and I do not believe that I have done so either.
- My main motivation has been to encourage discussion through presenting my rationale as someone who knows the facts yet still chooses not to have the vaccine.

But finally,

- It's curious that Bozza considers the things I say to be so convincing that it requires censorship, despite some intelligent people countering my debate, which surely means it's possible that some or many of my claims may be correct. But whether I'm right or wrong, is censorship ever healthy?

Perhaps it would have helped had you not made false claims such as the ones pointed out on [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION]'s post?

Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Getting vaccinated ... certainly isn't required in healthy people anymore.

Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
The only people that need the vaccine now are the old and vulnerable.

These are not facts, these are your opinions, in the same way that your claim of 'natural immunity' is based on your opinion.

 

[birthofanorange]

It's obviously not appropriate for me to explain why I believe this isn't just my opinion, but a fact, at this moment in time.

Here is an interesting article from the BBC this morning which explains why we are in a better position than Europe, which confirms the claims that I have been making on this very thread for months now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849

Yet the current advice is still for everyone (that can) to have the vaccine - healthy or otherwise.

 

[Bozza]

It's obviously not appropriate for me to explain why I believe this isn't just my opinion, but a fact, at this moment in time.

Here is an interesting article from the BBC this morning which explains why we are in a better position than Europe, which confirms the claims that I have been making on this very thread for months now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849

As illustrated you have stated repeatedly, as absolute fact, that large swathes of the population do not need to take the Covid vaccine.

Every single day unvaccinated people who are neither old nor vulnerable die of Covid.

Once again, whilst the risk to large swathes of the population is low, once you apply that small risk factor to a large number of people you end up with quite a lot of people needing hospital care and some of those will sadly die.

The problem is people who may have needed the vaccine may not know that until it is too late. It's essentially Russian roulette. Most people "win" but a few "lose". No one knows in advance who is who.

 

[dazzer6666]

It's obviously not appropriate for me to explain why I believe this isn't just my opinion, but a fact, at this moment in time.

Here is an interesting article from the BBC this morning which explains why we are in a better position than Europe, which confirms the claims that I have been making on this very thread for months now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849

‘I’m not going to explain, or support, my view, I’m just correct….despite what all the evidence suggests and experts say’.

 

[Weststander]

Seeing as this could be my last opportunity to speak on this matter, I would like to clarify a few points.

- I have reiterated time and time again that I'm very much pro vaccination, especially for vulnerable groups and over 50's.
- I have never intended at any point to discourage anyone to be vaccinated, and I do not believe that I have done so either.
- My main motivation has been to encourage discussion through presenting my rationale as someone who knows the facts yet still chooses not to have the vaccine.

But finally,

- It's curious that Bozza considers the things I say to be so convincing that it requires censorship, despite some intelligent people countering my debate, which surely means it's possible that some or many of my claims may be correct. But whether I'm right or wrong, is censorship ever healthy?

I don't agree with that bit, I'm afraid.

People debate whether Icke is correct that the Queen's an alien lizard, whether QAnon are correct that Democrats/famous actors are murdering and eating kids.

I come from the rational part of the world, of sticking to facts.

I'll challenge conjecture, especially when lay people think they know more about a specialism than the true experts.

 

[n1 gull]

Censorship is bullshit.

I've been a member of this board for over 20 years. If you ban Mustafa for asking questions and testing science you can ban me as well

 

[sparkie]

In hospital, Covid-19 has largely become a disease of the unvaccinated. The man in his 20s who had always watched what he ate, worked out in the gym, was too healthy to ever catch Covid badly. The 48-year-old who never got round to making the appointment.

The person in their 50s whose friend had side-effects. The woman who wanted to wait for more evidence. The young pregnant lady worried about the effect on her baby.

The 60-year-old, brought to hospital with oxygen saturations of 70% by the ambulance that he initially called for his partner, who had died by the time it arrived; both believed that the drug companies bribed the government to get the vaccine approved.

All severely ill with Covid. All unvaccinated and previously healthy. All completely avoidable.

More from an NHS respiratory consultant >>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

The evil that pumped that misinformation into their minds makes me so angry.

 

[birthofanorange]

Censorship is bullshit.

I've been a member of this board for over 20 years. If you ban Mustafa for asking questions and testing science you can ban me as well

With all due respect to a long-standing member, I don't think the aim is 'censorship' per se, rather a prevention of someone making false claims/ misinformation at a time of a global pandemic.

I have no axe to grind with Mustafa, but surely you can't claim he's "testing science"? He has clearly (on many occasions) made claims that are simply based on his opinion, rather than actual facts.

Do you really think that's appropriate?

 

[n1 gull]

With all due respect to a long-standing member, I don't think the aim is 'censorship' per se, rather a prevention of someone making false claims/ misinformation at a time of a global pandemic.

I have no axe to grind with Mustafa, but surely you can't claim he's "testing science"? He has clearly (on many occasions) made claims that are simply based on his opinion, rather than actual facts.

Do you really think that's appropriate?

This is the definition of censorship;

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. This may be done on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient". Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions, and other controlling bodies.

 

[crodonilson]

Chief of WHO Europe says 160,000 lives could be saved this winter in Europe if 95% of people wear masks.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Censorship is bullshit.

I've been a member of this board for over 20 years. If you ban Mustafa for asking questions and testing science you can ban me as well

I had vowed not to post on this particular thread anymore, particularly after some of the inane responses and posts from Mustafa.

Mustafa hasn't been "testing" science but pushing his own I don't give a damn about anyone else and I'm super immune agenda, with zero "science" to back it up.

His latest rambling to say that we are in "such a good position" going into Winter, was because people ignored the advice to wear masks, conveniently ignoring our vaccination programme, may have been the final straw for many!

In the end, he just came across as an I'm alright Jack, selfish troll...

 

[n1 gull]

I had vowed not to post on this particular thread anymore, particularly after some of the inane responses and posts from Mustafa.

Mustafa hasn't been "testing" science but pushing his own I don't give a damn about anyone else and I'm super immune agenda, with zero "science" to back it up.

His latest rambling to say that we are in "such a good position" going into Winter, was because people ignored the advice to wear masks, conveniently ignoring our vaccination programme, may have been the final straw for many!

In the end, he just came across as an I'm alright Jack, selfish troll...

I’m not saying I agree or disagree my point is about censorship

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I’m not saying I agree or disagree my point is about censorship

What's your opinion of trolling then?

 

[n1 gull]

What's your opinion of trolling then?

Trolling happens from all sides. Trolls are extremely boring, tedious and best ignored

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Trolling happens from all sides. Trolls are extremely boring, tedious and best ignored

Which is precisely what I was doing until the current debate on censorship - talking of which, is having an "ignore" facility censorship in a way?