Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Kinky Gerbil]

The vaccine is a success across the developed world, but its 80% effective and there are still a lot of people unvaccinated, its not a silver bullet and we are still in the middle of a global pandemic

In the UK Covid deaths have almost quadrupled since so called freedom day, cases are stubbornly high and hospitalisations are still rising....all this after the summer holiday period which is the best season of the year for infection spread. We have failed to use the summer to get things in check

There's an air of complacency and this is amplified by government. We need to see proper leadership, we need mitigations, we need a proper plan and we need to act fast or Johnson will be battling the experts to save Christmas for a second year running.

The problem with the pushing the doom of 100k, 150k 200k daily cases is 30k isn’t stubbornly high.

It’s very low.

Why Johnson? Why not Sturgeon? Scotland is a lot worse than England

A proper plan like passports for large events, boosters etc?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

This summer has been a relative success.

The current rate of infections is exactly where we want them to be. We have a population who continues to have frequent exposure to covid, which will leave us in the best possible position when it comes to flu season.

A relative success for whom?

Since Freedom Day, July 19th, there have been 4,854 deaths, in the corresponding 52 days prior to July 19th there were 1,111 deaths. That's an increase of 336%.

Now I'm no Crodo, spreading gloom and doom and repeating ridiculous stats from people and organisations with vested interests, but equally I'm not one to believe this is all but over!

If you think that just shy of 5,000 deaths, during 7 weeks of Summer is a "relative success", then I would hate to see your definition of abject failure.

It's quite interesting that you appear to stand alone in your views on these boards. There are clear divisions of sides within this thread, but none seem to back up your assertions.

 

[nicko31]

This summer has been a relative success.

The current rate of infections is exactly where we want them to be. We have a population who continues to have frequent exposure to covid, which will leave us in the best possible position when it comes to flu season.

OK you're cool with current infection level and we're currently running at just over 1,000 covid deaths a week, lets call it 1 x Australia's total pandemic every week

How many Australia's a week before it goes from cool to uncool?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

There are always going to be thousands of deaths from covid, for the rest of time. That is the sad reality of having a new pathogen that will always exist throughout global populations.

If you think 5,000 deaths is bad, wait until flu season, where fatalities from covid (and flu) will dwarf that number. And it will always be that way; forever.

This summer has been a relative success because restrictions have been lifted and we have demonstrated that society can live with the virus. The rate of infection is high enough for all of us to be frequently exposed to covid, giving us all a better chance this winter, but not too high as to cause the NHS serious issues.

Still finding it hard to find the "success" in your posts!

 

[Yoda]

A relative success for whom?

Since Freedom Day, July 19th, there have been 4,854 deaths, in the corresponding 52 days prior to July 19th there were 1,111 deaths. That's an increase of 336%.

Now I'm no Crodo, spreading gloom and doom and repeating ridiculous stats from people and organisations with vested interests, but equally I'm not one to believe this is all but over!

If you think that just shy of 5,000 deaths, during 7 weeks of Summer is a "relative success", then I would hate to see your definition of abject failure.

It's quite interesting that you appear to stand alone in your views on these boards. There are clear divisions of sides within this thread, but none seem to back up your assertions.

Perspective. Take a 7 week period over most of November where cases were lower than they are now. Death were averaging around 400 per day. That's 19-20,000 deaths over the period.

Is that not a "success"?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Perspective. Take a 7 week period over most of November where cases were lower than they are now. Death were averaging around 400 per day. That's 19-20,000 deaths over the period.

Is that not a "success"?

Yes the vaccine has been a great success, and has allowed the government to be rather gung ho with their current approach.

I'm still not sure that 5000 deaths in a 7 week period, during the summer months, should be a cause to celebrate.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Yes the vaccine has been a great success, and has allowed the government to be rather gung ho with their current approach.

I'm still not sure that 5000 deaths in a 7 week period, during the summer months, should be a cause to celebrate.

I think the celebrations are for the survivors, not for the dead. If a surgeon performs 10 impossibly tricky operations on 10 people at death's door, and 9 of them survive, would you castigate him for failure?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I think the celebrations are for the survivors, not for the dead. If a surgeon performs 10 impossibly tricky operations on 10 people at death's door, and 9 of them survive, would you castigate him for failure?

You and KG both seem to have the habit of taking things to the literal end, rather like Crodo from the other side of the conversation.

Why does it have to be about someone at death's door - or are you still sticking by your previous comments that everyone who dies from Covid was about to die anyway?

Of course in the situation you describe the surgeon would warrant his plaudits - that isn't the case here though, is it!

 

[nicko31]

In Los Angeles, CA from January 1 double vaccination will become mandatory as a condition of entry for all over 12's in schools. Those who opt out will be enrolled into remote learning programs

https://www.latimes.com/california/...eles-school-officials-approve-vaccine-mandate

Interesting to see if this becomes a trend

 

[LamieRobertson]

You and KG both seem to have the habit of taking things to the literal end, rather like Crodo from the other side of the conversation.

Why does it have to be about someone at death's door - or are you still sticking by your previous comments that everyone who dies from Covid was about to die anyway?

Of course in the situation you describe the surgeon would warrant his plaudits - that isn't the case here though, is it!

I think him and the other poster DJ a wonderful job in countering a lot of the stuff that gets posted on here

 

[dsr-burnley]

You and KG both seem to have the habit of taking things to the literal end, rather like Crodo from the other side of the conversation.

Why does it have to be about someone at death's door - or are you still sticking by your previous comments that everyone who dies from Covid was about to die anyway?

Of course in the situation you describe the surgeon would warrant his plaudits - that isn't the case here though, is it!

I have never made any comment that everyone who dies of Covid was about to die anyway. That's either a lie, or a bad mistake.

The element of success in the Covid treatment is that there is a disease which used to kill in thousands and now it kills in hundreds. For all adult age groups, vaccination reduces the chance of death by 90% or more. Yes, it's failure in a sense because death hasn't been abolished; but it's success in a sense that reducing death rates of a lethal disease by 90% is pretty good.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

You and KG both seem to have the habit of taking things to the literal end, rather like Crodo from the other side of the conversation.

Why does it have to be about someone at death's door - or are you still sticking by your previous comments that everyone who dies from Covid was about to die anyway?

Of course in the situation you describe the surgeon would warrant his plaudits - that isn't the case here though, is it!

Have you got a breakdown of those deaths?

Who didn’t take up the vaccine when they could have

Who picked it up in hospital and died - in for something else

Who had serious illnesses already

Quoting 5000 deaths doesn’t paint the whole picture.

Nor is anyone saying they would have died anyway

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I have never made any comment that everyone who dies of Covid was about to die anyway. That's either a lie, or a bad mistake.

The element of success in the Covid treatment is that there is a disease which used to kill in thousands and now it kills in hundreds. For all adult age groups, vaccination reduces the chance of death by 90% or more. Yes, it's failure in a sense because death hasn't been abolished; but it's success in a sense that reducing death rates of a lethal disease by 90% is pretty good.

I think I may have done you a disservice and conflated your views possibly with those of another poster - my most sincere apologies!

However, my feelings regarding your analogy about the surgeon still sticks

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Have you got a breakdown of those deaths?

Who didn’t take up the vaccine when they could have

Who picked it up in hospital and died - in for something else

Who had serious illnesses already

Quoting 5000 deaths doesn’t paint the whole picture.

Nor is anyone saying they would have died anyway

No, I don't have that information to hand - sorry, and yes the suggestion has been made on here that the majority of people dying from Covid were about to die anyway, although it appears I may have confused posters, for which I have apologised.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I think him and the other poster DJ a wonderful job in countering a lot of the stuff that gets posted on here

How did Locadia get into this conversation?

I agree that there is more of a balance in their views then say Crodo or Albion Dan, but they do both tend to use extreme exaggeration to make a point at times, which when you possibly have a valid point isn't really necessary.

 

[El Presidente]

Yes, it's failure in a sense because death hasn't been abolished.

You could say the same about life in general then presumably?

 

[dsr-burnley]

I think I may have done you a disservice and conflated your views possibly with those of another poster - my most sincere apologies!

However, my feelings regarding your analogy about the surgeon still sticks

I have suggested that (very much like with flu) that a significant number of the deaths are people who are old and frail and who would be killed by their next big illness. Covid, like many diseases, is harder to shake off if you are already dying. I never suggested that it was all of them, or that their lives didn't matter (which is something else I have been accused of by at least one other poster) - although I have suggested that it might be very hard to do anything about that proportion of deaths, or that the actions needed to stop that proportion of deaths would do more harm than good.

 

[razer]

A relative success for whom?

Since Freedom Day, July 19th, there have been 4,854 deaths, in the corresponding 52 days prior to July 19th there were 1,111 deaths. That's an increase of 336%.

Now I'm no Crodo, spreading gloom and doom and repeating ridiculous stats from people and organisations with vested interests, but equally I'm not one to believe this is all but over!

If you think that just shy of 5,000 deaths, during 7 weeks of Summer is a "relative success", then I would hate to see your definition of abject failure.

It's quite interesting that you appear to stand alone in your views on these boards. There are clear divisions of sides within this thread, but none seem to back up your assertions.

[MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] is right. The virus is never going away and the more that people have contact with it the quicker it will become another flu. It is likely that every one of our 68 million population will get infected at some point and the day that happens is the day the pandemic is properly over.

 

[carlzeiss]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...demic-officials-gradually-adapt-strategy.html

Covid vaccines won't end pandemic and officials must now 'gradually adapt strategy' to cope with inevitable spread of virus, World Health Organization official warns

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

[MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] is right. The virus is never going away and the more that people have contact with it the quicker it will become another flu. It is likely that every one of our 68 million population will get infected at some point and the day that happens is the day the pandemic is properly over.

I know Covid, like it’s less aggressive little brother, flu, will never go away. That doesn’t mean though that we need to rely on natural herd immunity to get us to that point - we already have one of the highest casualty rates from Covid so feel some caution should still be exercised.