Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[macbeth]

It’s a difficult case to argue, as no British government in modern history has had to grapple with something as challenging as this. But again, as in March, we seem to have a strategy based on inaction tempered only by what others do.

“Oh, erm, gosh. France are having a bloody lockdown then. Blimey, maybe we should too, chaps?”

I’m not for or against lockdowns - I honestly don’t know what the right thing to do is. But what I’m against is this fúcking dithering about, ignoring scientific advice until such a time things look so bleak that there is apparently no other option but to shut the whole country down again.

As far as the developed world goes, this is Europe and America’s problem now. The East for the most part has had the problem under control for a while. And I’m not just talking about the likes of China and their ‘draconian’ regimes - to the best of my knowledge Australia and New Zealand are democratic nations and relatively nice places to live.

I just read this hugely depressing article on the BBC which suggests we’ve got another five years of this nonsense:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54661843

I’m not suggesting for a moment that I take the piece for it’s word; the media seem to have a raging appetite for depressing hyperbole at the minute, but if we are truly in this past the spring or summer I think we’re going to see some serious social unrest on a scale way above anything we’ve seen so far.

I’m posting this at 5:40 on a Saturday morning not because I have somewhere to be today, who does anymore? I just can’t sleep. The next few months are going to be tough, but unless this wretched government gets a bailout in the form of a near-perfect vaccine, I think it’s fair to say this is only the beginning.

As qualified as those people are I think that article is largely (educated) guesswork. Each of them is saying something different, although they seem to agree on the overall gist that this thing won't just disappear, they seem to contradict each other on what type of threat we could face from the virus in the future . And even if it is the case that the virus will continue to be a threat for 5 years, let's say, it seems difficult to believe that the gov't will keep the country in an economic death-grip for that length of time. So it won't be the case that we're living in this perpetual limbo for the next five years, I'm sure of it. The one dilemma that will linger, I think, is the protection of the vulnerable, particularly if the vaccines aren't as promising in the elderly or vulnerable (though the recent oxford data being reported seems to suggest otherwise). It's going to be a tough balancing act, however the environment we're currently in will not last for 5 years, it simply won't.

 

[Weststander]

What annoys me is how the public get the heads up on this through crafted leaks to the Tory supporting media outlets.

It seems that even in a crisis that should be above politics it all plays out like an episode of 'House of cards'.

Aren’t The Times more interested in grabbing any headline, they rushed to publish anti-government stories in any era? Not the loyal Telegraph.

My suspicion is that has come from a rogue right wing minister or official, who’s against lockdowns and saving lives from CV19.

Leaks to cause trouble have happened under every PM including Blair and Brown.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Aren’t The Times more interested in grabbing any headline, they rushed to publish anti-government stories in any era? Not the loyal Telegraph.

My suspicion is that has come from a rogue right wing minister or official, who’s against lockdowns and saving lives from CV19.

Leaks to cause trouble have happened under every PM including Blair and Brown.

I think the general consensus now is that the leak came from one of the senior ministers who wanted a lockdown and wanted to ensure Johnson didn't back down and U-turn again after Friday's meeting where the lockdown was agreed. This was why the announcement was rushed forward from Monday to yesterday.

My first thought was that it was an 'official' government leak to prepare people so the announcement wouldn't be too much of a shock.

 

[Bozza]

I think the general consensus now is that the leak came from one of the senior ministers who wanted a lockdown and wanted to ensure Johnson didn't back down and U-turn again after Friday's meeting where the lockdown was agreed. This was why the announcement was rushed forward from Monday to yesterday.

My first thought was that it was an 'official' government leak to prepare people so the announcement wouldn't be too much of a shock.

I didn't see the Andrew Marr Show this morning as I was out with the dog.

I did. however, see Andrew Marr on Sunday Brunch. He said the leak came from a meeting of four: Johnson, Sunak, Hancock and Gove. He asked Gove this morning if he leaked it - he said "no". He asked if he thought Hancock leaked it and Gove said "no".

"That leaves two..." Marr concluded.

 

[pb21]

Yep, I would think that the leak came from the top, Johnson or Cummings.

 

[RossyG]

Great (in my opinion) article in today’s Telegraph.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I didn't see the Andrew Marr Show this morning as I was out with the dog.

I did. however, see Andrew Marr on Sunday Brunch. He said the leak came from a meeting of four: Johnson, Sunak, Hancock and Gove. He asked Gove this morning if he leaked it - he said "no". He asked if he thought Hancock leaked it and Gove said "no".

"That leaves two..." Marr concluded.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was Sunak.

I do think that Rishi resigning any time soon would be a good move for him politically. He has had a meteoric rise from new boy in the office (he only became an MP 5 years ago FFS) to number 2, based on the fact that he was happy to accept Cumming's SPADs and stab Javid in the back. If he backed away now, just as the shit is hitting the fan on every front, he can step back with his reputation intact having only ever given 'good news' without any responsibility for the implications, and prepare (albeit a while away yet) for the top job.

I do find trying to read these situations fascinating. I'm guessing it's because I had to do it for years when I used to work. With large organisations and Government departments, reading the political situation is just as, if not more important to a 'successful' project than what is actually delivered

I'm still dying to know the reasons behind all the delays on yesterday's announcement, but I'm guessing I'll hear some rumours during the week. I wouldn't be surprised if Sunak's name comes up

 

[beorhthelm]

Great (in my opinion) article in today’s Telegraph.

yep, the people demand that the state solve all their ills. so its not really totalitarian, its democratic. sure some people will protest, even go on a march over restrictions. and so to will some protest and march if there's 80k, 100k, 150k dieing and bodies bleeding out of the hospitals (especially that writer). we'll blame the politicans either way, which ever option they take. we're in least worst outcomes, what can be done to some affect which is least perceived negative outcomes. generally we prefer people to live short term than to die, so they are taking that route.

 

[FindonFan]

I’m aware that the new Covid restrictions come in to force on Thursday, but exactly what time on Thursday?

 

[Motogull]

You can't keep a good attention seeker down:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54777346

 

[Weststander]

Any one here listening to R5 Nicky Campbell just then.

"Donald" called in fuming about the mass media hysteria on CV19, it's all exaggerated apparently, the number of deaths tiny compared to other deaths, there should be no lockdowns or restrictions, why don't we listen to the other half of the scientific community?

His overriding argument was then absolutely destroyed by the forthright microbiologist Simon Clark. With, even you disbelieve all the number of cases metrics, reaI ICU wards are filling fast, real people, real CV19 deaths.

I loved it that this little spat, got to the nitty gritty.

 

[Yoda]

Coronavirus: Entire population of Liverpool to be regularly offered COVID-19 tests under pilot scheme

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...ar-tests-to-all-as-part-of-new-trial-12122219

This kind of thing should've been ready in the pipe line during the summer to get on top of any potential hot spots.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You can't keep a good attention seeker down:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54777346

Swivel-eyed Brexit looney becomes swivel-eyed anti-lockdown looney. Surely not.

Is that a few more pennies I hear dropping ?

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Any one here listening to R5 Nicky Campbell just then.

"Donald" called in fuming about the mass media hysteria on CV19, it's all exaggerated apparently, the number of deaths tiny compared to other deaths, there should be no lockdowns or restrictions, why don't we listen to the other half of the scientific community?

His overriding argument was then absolutely destroyed by the forthright microbiologist Simon Clark. With, even you disbelieve all the number of cases metrics, reaI ICU wards are filling fast, real people, real CV19 deaths.

I loved it that this little spat, got to the nitty gritty.

I thought there was only one Covid patient in the Royal Sussex ICU last week? [emoji2369]

 

[trueblue]

I thought there was only one Covid patient in the Royal Sussex ICU last week? [emoji2369]

If true, we’re lucky aren’t we? At the moment. Once ICUs start filling up in less fortunate areas, it will have a knock-on effect nationwide. Of course, there are the Nightingale “hospitals” - which they can’t staff properly, so their value is debatable (other than to make more space for the dying).

 

[The Wizard]

Infections levelling off and decreasing slightly, perfect time to lockdown the entire country then.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

[tweet]1323562624307650560[/tweet]

This really needs to be looked at.

 

[The Wizard]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...pitals-84-full.html?__twitter_impression=true


Yes it’s in the mail, but if true it leads you to question the timing of this lockdown AND what KG referred to above, why are so many people dying at home when hospitals are significantly below capacity? Scandalous.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes it’s in the mail, but if true it leads you to question the timing of this lockdown AND what KG referred to above, why are so many people dying at home when hospitals are significantly below capacity? Scandalous.

its only scandalous if there is a significant net rise in death as a consequence. as it is, instead of sending elderly in final hours off to hospital, given treatment "make them more comfortable", they are staying at home.

 

[darkwolf666]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...pitals-84-full.html?__twitter_impression=true


Yes it’s in the mail, but if true it leads you to question the timing of this lockdown AND what KG referred to above, why are so many people dying at home when hospitals are significantly below capacity? Scandalous.

Good god, I don't normally have anything to do with the Daily Mail, not for any reason other than I don't normally read papers, but the people leaving comments on that story are really really scary.

I didn't know such uniformly ignorant people existed, or has the Daily Mail just rounded up all that is bad about our society in the UK and got them under one umbrella posting absolute horse shite...

Oh, and what a poorly written piece - where do they get their journalists from, The Daily Star rejects pool?