Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Herr Tubthumper]

How many people have died and will die as a result of NHS treatment and diagnoses being delayed? .

The excess death figure will provides a reasonable estimate of this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Well if you're right and a vaccine is rolled out by Spring (realistically, not a chance in hell), then happy days.

I disagree. Why do you think this?

this virtually harmless virus.

Oh dear.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

90.4% of people who die with Covid have at least one underlying medical condition. That is not factored into any calculator or life expectancy chart. You cannot seriously tell me 82 year olds with underlying health conditions have an average of another decade left to live.

No idea about 82 year olds, with illness, life expectancy. But, what you’re talking about here is the basis of actuarial science. If you go Googling into this field I’m sure you’ll find some answers to your questions.

 

[Weststander]

How many people have died and will die as a result of NHS treatment and diagnoses being delayed? How many lives will be lost because of the economic issues which will be caused by continued restrictions which will last a life time or more?

Why are some lives worth more than others to you? Why is the future of young people worth so little?

In theory we could lockdown and furlough everyone, every time we get a significant increase such as now. In your opinion, why shouldn't we do that, as it would certainly save lives of vulnerable people.

Hospitals overrun with people fighting for their lives from Covid, won’t help those with cancer and other life threatening illnesses. In fact, quite the opposite.

Enforced public health laws save lives from Covid and keep hospitals open for the many.

 

[The Clamp]

I'm not sure what you are asking. We need to do all we can to minimise avoidable deaths.

My belief in a nutshell is that we should absolutely not be priorising the fight against coronavirus above everything else, such as the economy, mental health and the wide range of NHS treatments & diagnoses.

I believe that the mistake we ARE making and are likely to continue to make is exactly that. I believe it will indirectly lead to millions of ruined lives & tens of thousands of lost lives. Or more, over the next decade. Literally.

You are right. Many people don't want to face the facts you have outlined in your unpopular but accurate post. Far too much emphasis is put on battling Covid while untold numbers of people will be facing undiagnosed cancers and other life threatening illness. Many of whom will die alone, undiagnosed, in great pain.

Long after the covid outbreak is a half forgotten blur of zoom meetings, pot bashing and toilet paper shortages, people will be dealing with preventable consequences. Of course, I mean no disrespect to those who have lost loved ones to covid, they shall not be forgotten. I speak of the VAST majority of people that have not lost loved ones to covid. But who may lose loved ones because of the over-reaction to covid.

 

[Weststander]

Nope, I don’t - I’ve not said anything should be open 100 percent - I think we had it right in the summer and we should have seen if the cases calmed down before panicking into another lockdown - cases are already looking like they are decreasing in areas before lockdown x 2.

But it ended up being not right by the end of August, all of September and counting. The runaway train of exponential growth in CV19 cases in the UK had begun. Translating into rapidly rising fatalities by late September.

At that point, only state or regional intervention can alter the trajectory and save lives.

 

[Bozza]

You are right. Many people don't want to face the facts you have outlined in your unpopular but accurate post. Far too much emphasis is put on battling Covid while untold numbers of people will be facing undiagnosed cancers and other life threatening illness. Many of whom will die alone, undiagnosed, in great pain.

With respect - and we all know where that leads when someone says that - that's nonsense.

What I believe is relatively simple:

1. All those with health concerns deserve to get the treatment they need and deserve in a timely manner. For the avoidance of doubt, that's those who suffer acute symptoms from Covid-19, those who have a new or existing cancer diagnosis, those with mental health problems and more besides.

2. The very best chance of everyone receiving the healthcare they deserve is for Covid-19 infection rates to remain low. It removes a massive headache from the NHS, and means there is less contention for their finite resources.

3. There is no route from where we are that is painless somewhere. Balancing healthcare for Covid-19 patients, healthcare for those with all manner of other ailments and the widespread economic impacts of dealing with this is difficult. Unfortunately there is going to be pain - it's just unavoidable. We have to try the very best we can to minimise that pain and support those who are impacted. But it's not ****ing easy.

4. Saying "**** it, let's just get back to normal now" is a fast-track to disaster on all fronts. Health services will quickly become overwhelmed with sick people, whilst simultaneously losing large numbers of staff who also become ill and, in some cases, die. With the health services overwhelmed, many of those who require healthcare for other issues will miss out - there aren't enough resources to go round. Economic impact are huge - lots of people are sick, lots are dying. Additionally, many of those who are OK all but lock themselves away. If catching the virus could mean you need medical help that can't be provided then you will do your utmost to minimise the chances of catching the virus. At this point the government would have no choice but to impose a full lockdown - people would be demanding it.

Long after the covid outbreak is a half forgotten blur of zoom meetings, pot bashing and toilet paper shortages, people will be dealing with preventable consequences. Of course, I mean no disrespect to those who have lost loved ones to covid, they shall not be forgotten. I speak of the VAST majority of people that have not lost loved ones to covid. But who may lose loved ones because of the over-reaction to covid.

Over-reaction? What do you think we should be doing right now? And, play along with me please, whatever you propose - what would you then do if it didn't work out and hospitals were swamped denying care to all those you, and I, wish to see helped.

 

[The Clamp]

With respect - and we all know where that leads when someone says that - that's nonsense.

What I believe is relatively simple:

1. All those with health concerns deserve to get the treatment they need and deserve in a timely manner. For the avoidance of doubt, that's those who suffer acute symptoms from Covid-19, those who have a new or existing cancer diagnosis, those with mental health problems and more besides.

2. The very best chance of everyone receiving the healthcare they deserve is for Covid-19 infection rates to remain low. It removes a massive headache from the NHS, and means there is less contention for their finite resources.

3. There is no route from where we are that is painless somewhere. Balancing healthcare for Covid-19 patients, healthcare for those with all manner of other ailments and the widespread economic impacts of dealing with this is difficult. Unfortunately there is going to be pain - it's just unavoidable. We have to try the very best we can to minimise that pain and support those who are impacted. But it's not ****ing easy.

4. Saying "**** it, let's just get back to normal now" is a fast-track to disaster on all fronts. Health services will quickly become overwhelmed with sick people, whilst simultaneously losing large numbers of staff who also become ill and, in some cases, die. With the health services overwhelmed, many of those who require healthcare for other issues will miss out - there aren't enough resources to go round. Economic impact are huge - lots of people are sick, lots are dying. Additionally, many of those who are OK all but lock themselves away. If catching the virus could mean you need medical help that can't be provided then you will do your utmost to minimise the chances of catching the virus. At this point the government would have no choice but to impose a full lockdown - people would be demanding it.



Over-reaction? What do you think we should be doing right now? And, play along with me please, whatever you propose - what would you then do if it didn't work out and hospitals were swamped denying care to all those you, and I, wish to see helped.

I’m very open to the idea I could be very wrong. Which is why I follow all the instructions and restrictions and always wear a mask in public and at work.

 

[LamieRobertson]

The excess death figure will provides a reasonable estimate of this.

Possibly ..but I’d hazard a guess that it’s not the current one ...but those in the future as a result of actions taken now.

 

[sydney]

Indeed, I imagine the people who died from it and their families found it very inconvenient.

the 90 % , low risk punters who are under lockdown around the globe are also under some inconvenience wouldn't you say .....??

 

[sydney]

You are right. Many people don't want to face the facts you have outlined in your unpopular but accurate post. Far too much emphasis is put on battling Covid while untold numbers of people will be facing undiagnosed cancers and other life threatening illness. Many of whom will die alone, undiagnosed, in great pain.

Long after the covid outbreak is a half forgotten blur of zoom meetings, pot bashing and toilet paper shortages, people will be dealing with preventable consequences. Of course, I mean no disrespect to those who have lost loved ones to covid, they shall not be forgotten. I speak of the VAST majority of people that have not lost loved ones to covid. But who may lose loved ones because of the over-reaction to covid.

we are on the same page here......this is ruining the world , it's funny how there was a growing wave of dissent around the planet re politicians , royalty, immigration , the money paid to and spent by politicians , protests in HK , Thailand , Ukraine ,India, Venezuela, South Africa, Belarus , Poland to name a few ....lo and behold along comes a "bona fide" pandemic to bring about a global shut down and like i said elsewhere , politicians globally have showed that they are by and large winging it ....!! in my opinion of course.

 

[sydney]

Nope, I don’t - I’ve not said anything should be open 100 percent - I think we had it right in the summer and we should have seen if the cases calmed down before panicking into another lockdown - cases are already looking like they are decreasing in areas before lockdown x 2.

Before you even look at the economy, there is no balance between other illnesses/deaths and covid - The NHS is semi closed.

Wales and Scotland have completely shit the bed and the reactions in those areas are way ott

Every decision the Gov has made or not made has made the situation worse - only today they are talking about stopping people working in more than one care home because of spread of infection

30 percent of outbreaks are in care homes - check the average age of the deaths and you can see the knock on that affect is having.

We are again targeting the wrong areas, it doesn’t take a track and trace system to see that.

people are catching on .....slowly.

 

[The Clamp]

we are on the same page here......this is ruining the world , it's funny how there was a growing wave of dissent around the planet re politicians , royalty, immigration , the money paid to and spent by politicians , protests in HK , Thailand , Ukraine ,India, Venezuela, South Africa, Belarus , Poland to name a few ....lo and behold along comes a "bona fide" pandemic to bring about a global shut down and like i said elsewhere , politicians globally have showed that they are by and large winging it ....!! in my opinion of course.

My suspicion is in about five years time we will look back on all this as an overreaction and realise it would have run it’s course whatever we did .I don’t believe the NHS was ever in danger of being overrun. Nightingale hospitals stood empty and unused etc.
I realise this is not a popular opinion and expect a roasting for it but something about this whole mess does not add up. I’m not really buying it anymore.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

The media are to blame for focussing on the closure of pubs and the people moaning about the Government .
Instead they should be telling of the thousands admitted to hospital with Covid and the hundreds dying all the time with it.
They seem determined to make this political. What do they want? Freedom to please themselves? Then they would slam Boris for inactivity.
Show us hospitals....interview the bereaved.That is the real story....

 

[Seagull27]

My suspicion is in about five years time we will look back on all this as an overreaction and realise it would have run it’s course whatever we did .I don’t believe the NHS was ever in danger of being overrun. Nightingale hospitals stood empty and unused etc.
I realise this is not a popular opinion and expect a roasting for it but something about this whole mess does not add up. I’m not really buying it anymore.

How many times - they stood unused because we had a nationwide lockdown that stopped the exponential rise in cases!

We're about to enter the winter months, which in normal years is a struggle for the NHS - remember the reports of people being treated in corridors etc? Add a hundred or so Coronavirus patients to that for each hospital and it won't be people being treated in hospital corridors, it'll be turning people away because they have no choice.

I'm surprised this is coming from you to be honest, you're better than this.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[BLOCK F]

Scenes in Wales, this cannot be real surely

[tweet]1319615885250842624[/tweet]

I didn't believe this to start with, but it is happening.
Quite ludicrous, Drakeford has surely lost the plot.

 

[The Clamp]

How many times - they stood unused because we had a nationwide lockdown that stopped the exponential rise in cases!

We're about to enter the winter months, which in normal years is a struggle for the NHS - remember the reports of people being treated in corridors etc? Add a hundred or so Coronavirus patients to that for each hospital and it won't be people being treated in hospital corridors, it'll be turning people away because they have no choice.

I'm surprised this is coming from you to be honest, you're better than this.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Don’t worry, some days I don’t agree with me either.

 

[A1X]

How many people have died and will die as a result of NHS treatment and diagnoses being delayed? How many lives will be lost because of the economic issues which will be caused by continued restrictions which will last a life time or more?

It's genuinely staggering that you still absolutely refuse to understand that locking down keeps hospitals open, and while it might delay some treatments and diagnoses if we just let the virus rip then hospitals are going to become clogged and NONE of these diagnoses and treatments will take place. Is it better to delay or outright cancel?

Why are some lives worth more than others to you? Why is the future of young people worth so little?

You're going to ask me why I regard my Mum's life as more important than people I've never met at the other end of the country? So you're just totally lacking in empathy and humanity I assume? It actually explains an awful lot.

In theory we could lockdown and furlough everyone, every time we get a significant increase such as now. In your opinion, why shouldn't we do that, as it would certainly save lives of vulnerable people.

Weasel wording and appeal to extremes. There is a middle ground between what you're proposing here and what you'd like which is to return to a 2019 level of normality. Which is basically doing what we're doing now (albeit doing it a bit better).

 

[A1X]

we are on the same page here......this is ruining the world , it's funny how there was a growing wave of dissent around the planet re politicians , royalty, immigration , the money paid to and spent by politicians , protests in HK , Thailand , Ukraine ,India, Venezuela, South Africa, Belarus , Poland to name a few ....lo and behold along comes a "bona fide" pandemic to bring about a global shut down and like i said elsewhere , politicians globally have showed that they are by and large winging it ....!! in my opinion of course.

The fatal flaw in this post is that people aren't trusting "politicians", they're trusting "scientists". Which is why now in the countries which have deviated from the scientific advice (e.g. Brazil, the US, the UK) the popularity of their Governments is falling, whereas the politicians which have followed the advice of the scientists are already reaping rewards (see Jacinda Ardern).

 

[sydney]

My suspicion is in about five years time we will look back on all this as an overreaction and realise it would have run it’s course whatever we did .I don’t believe the NHS was ever in danger of being overrun. Nightingale hospitals stood empty and unused etc.
I realise this is not a popular opinion and expect a roasting for it but something about this whole mess does not add up. I’m not really buying it anymore.

well at least we agree on this , which has a lot more gravity than the rest of the bollox we piffle about......