Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Poojah]

I agree with that. I suppose it boils down to reducing as much face to face contact as possible while trying to stop the economy tanking. TBH I don't think the governments request to go to work if you can was taken on board by many so I am not sure that is a lever they can pull anymore. Apparently the experts said a while back Pub and Restaurants might need to go to reopen the schools. But then that is most probably a couple of million people out fo a job.

That’s the challenge right there. The rule of six, as flawed and contradictory as it is, at least makes sense in that it’s a lever you can pull which doesn’t have any noticeable economic consequences. I can see the logic in shutting pubs and restaurants again, but it’s going to have grave economic consequences.

Solve the specific issues related to such places, rather than simply shut them down. As I say, we may already be too far down the path to take such an approach now, sadly.

 

[e77]

That’s the challenge right there. The rule of six, as flawed and contradictory as it is, at least makes sense in that it’s a lever you can pull which doesn’t have any noticeable economic consequences. I can see the logic in shutting pubs and restaurants again, but it’s going to have grave economic consequences.

Solve the specific issues related to such places, rather than simply shut them down. As I say, we may already be too far down the path to take such an approach now, sadly.

The places I have been to have been very diligent and you can still have a good evening out, even if the spontaneity is gone. I have walked past some pubs and to all intents and purposes they look like they always did. I think it just needs policing a bit.

 

[Albion Dan]

Touched in briefly above but Oxford Uni scientists believe a third of Covid ‘deaths’ in July and Aug were actually because of something else. How many people actually are dying of this thing? If you then took the care home scandal away from the numbers what are we actually left with? Is it enough to justify the society we are being forced to become?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...covid-19-victims-July-August-died-causes.html

And then there are the stats suggesting that the ‘second wave’ seems less far dangerous in terms of fatality. If this thing isn’t as dangerous anymore why can’t we just shield those that really need it?

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...g-less-deadly-in-europe-but-we-dont-know-why/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...id-cases-Europe-not-causing-deaths-spike.html

This thing clearly is also now with us for the long term. It’s not just going to go away and lockdowns aren’t ever going to eradicate it.
Surely lockdown every 3 months forever isn’t an option unless we want economic annihilation or a world where huge amounts of society are enslaved to the state with billions of people living off handouts? (Some conspiracy theorists suggest this is the actual plan)

For a benchmark it is estimated an additional 50k people died of flu in the winter of 2018. Where was the lock down and hysteria then? There wasn’t any. How many of us were even aware?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...crisis-bad-weather-illness-2017-a8660496.html

There’s been plenty said about vaccines here, that Independent article is pretty sobering I’d say with regard some people’s reliance on those being our saviour.

 

[e77]

Touched in briefly above but Oxford Uni scientists believe a third of Covid ‘deaths’ in July and Aug were actually because of something else. How many people actually are dying of this thing? If you then took the care home scandal away from the numbers what are we actually left with? Is it enough to justify the society we are being forced to become?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...covid-19-victims-July-August-died-causes.html

And then there are the stats suggesting that the ‘second wave’ seems less far dangerous in terms of fatality. If this thing isn’t as dangerous anymore why can’t we just shield those that really need it?

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...g-less-deadly-in-europe-but-we-dont-know-why/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...id-cases-Europe-not-causing-deaths-spike.html

This thing clearly is also now with us for the long term. It’s not just going to go away and lockdowns aren’t ever going to eradicate it.
Surely lockdown every 3 months forever isn’t an option unless we want economic annihilation or a world where huge amounts of society are enslaved to the state with billions of people living off handouts? (Some conspiracy theorists suggest this is the actual plan)

For a benchmark it is estimated an additional 50k people died of flu in the winter of 2018. Where was the lock down and hysteria then? There wasn’t any. How many of us were even aware?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...crisis-bad-weather-illness-2017-a8660496.html

There’s been plenty said about vaccines here, that Independent article is pretty sobering I’d say with regard some people’s reliance on those being our saviour.

While it is definitely possible, and consistent with other viral outbreaks, that the virus has weakened it is a bit early to be kissing the guns as the young have mainly be infected so far which could yet to older and more vulnerable people being infected. Certainly hospital admissions are ticking up.

Assuming you are referring to deaths in the UK, Public Health England disagree with your 50k figure (unless there were an awful lot in the rest of the UK).

 

[beorhthelm]

For a benchmark it is estimated an additional 50k people died of flu in the winter of 2018. Where was the lock down and hysteria then? There wasn’t any. How many of us were even aware?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...crisis-bad-weather-illness-2017-a8660496.html

There’s been plenty said about vaccines here, that Independent article is pretty sobering I’d say with regard some people’s reliance on those being our saviour.

you present information incorrectly, upto others to decide if deliberatly or not. the article states there were 50k excess deaths in 2017/2018, and attributes some of this to flu. it was also a cold winter, as noted in the byline and second para of your article.

this graph shows the excess death rate then and this year. notice anything? thats right, a small increase from the mean back in 2017/2018, verses a massive spike in 2020.

on the matter of flu, the medical wonks have to judge which strain of flu emerging in the previous winter will take hold the following and put a vaccine into production. they dont get this right every year, or its more virulent or potent than forecast. sometimes that goes the other way (this year, very mild flu).

 

[Albion Dan]

you present information incorrectly, upto others to decide if deliberatly or not. the article states there were 50k excess deaths in 2017/2018, and attributes some of this to flu. it was also a cold winter, as noted in the byline and second para of your article.

this graph shows the excess death rate then and this year. notice anything? thats right, a small increase from the mean back in 2017/2018, verses a massive spike in 2020.

on the matter of flu, the medical wonks have to judge which strain of flu emerging in the previous winter will take hold the following and put a vaccine into production. they dont get this right every year, or its more virulent or potent than forecast. sometimes that goes the other way (this year, very mild flu).

That’s a very fair challenge and I’m happy to concede (after a few celebratory beers yesterday) that I’ve misinterpreted that report and the total excess deaths were 50k of which flu and an ineffective vaccine were sited as a key contributor.

 

[pb21]

That’s a very fair challenge and I’m happy to concede (after a few celebratory beers yesterday) that I’ve misinterpreted that report and the total excess deaths were 50k of which flu and an ineffective vaccine were sited as a key contributor.

You need to also consider that those 50k excess deaths were with life ongoing as normal with absolutely zero social distancing and pubs shutting etc.

 

[loz]

Intresting from the BBc of all people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-5...qgx_qbdPEXp8uYgHeWQpLZHaUNXuhAj5b-awiLb8aByjs

 

[e77]

Intresting from the BBc of all people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-5...qgx_qbdPEXp8uYgHeWQpLZHaUNXuhAj5b-awiLb8aByjs

I think the success or otherwise of the development of a vaccine will more or less decide this. If we have got one coming long in the spring it makes sense to baton down the hatches for few months but if not we might need to come up with long term plans to live with it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Telling words from Sir Patrick at the 11am briefing 'the virus is spread by aerosols'. I guess he's talking about the aerosol in Bolton who went on holiday then instead of self-isolating decided to go on a pub crawl and infected half the town

 

[Mellotron]

It's doing my ****ing head in that they're still only talking about antibodies and not T cells. This is science that was outdated 4 months ago!

 

[WATFORD zero]

I wonder why it was left to the civil servants for this broadcast ? Shirley they could have found one of the cabinet who would be prepared to explain how our 'world beating' test and trace system is going, because I was told that this would be the key to re-opening the country while controlling the spread of the virus.

Apparently Dido Harding believes that they have been 'caught out' by the numbers of people needing testing increasing. I'm guessing no one in Government realised that Autumn/Winter generally follow Summer

 

[Bozza]

I wonder why it was left to the civil servants for this broadcast ? Shirley they could have found one of the cabinet who would be prepared to explain how our 'world beating' test and trace system is going, because I was told that this would be the key to re-opening the country while controlling the spread of the virus

You're clearly a smart chap, but I find you utterly tiresome at times.

Today was clearly an attempt to try make this apolitical, to take the personalities you so despise out of it, and get our health and scientific leaders to lay out where we are, to try and get people to pay attention, to consider their actions, modify their behaviour and give us all the best chance of a good outcome from this.

And you can barely wait to jump on here and throw political shit around.

 

[RossyG]

Shame they didn't take questions afterwards.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You're clearly a smart chap, but I find you utterly tiresome at times.

Today was clearly an attempt to try make this apolitical, to take the personalities you so despise out of it, and get our health and scientific leaders to lay out where we are, to try and get people to pay attention, to consider their actions, modify their behaviour and give us all the best chance of a good outcome from this.

And you can barely wait to jump on here and throw political shit around.

And I'm sorry to say, that for a very smart likeable chap, I find you utterly naïve at times.

Unless, of course, it was Whitty and Valance who decided to do that today and then got the Government to agree to it

 

[beorhthelm]

It's doing my ****ing head in that they're still only talking about antibodies and not T cells. This is science that was outdated 4 months ago!

antibody testing isnt outdated, its standard medical practice. T-cells are not normally used for direct identification of infection, it can be done but more complex procedure as i understand it.

 

[Bozza]

It's doing my ****ing head in that they're still only talking about antibodies and not T cells. This is science that was outdated 4 months ago!

If they have cast-iron irrefutable evidence that there is anything at all out there that means we can relax a bit about viral spread then they will only be too delighted to factor it into our strategic approach.

The current rise of hospitalisations of people with Covid-19 has to be a cause for concern that simply can't be ignored by those charged with 66m people to try and look after as best they possibly can, particularly given hospitalisations is a lagging indicator.

Anything else would be a gamble, of sorts, and I can't see how any government can take that chance.

 

[A1X]

I think it was a mistake to not allow questions though, as people need the clarity and journalists might ask about specifics they can't cover.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It's doing my ****ing head in that they're still only talking about antibodies and not T cells. This is science that was outdated 4 months ago!

No questions to ask about debatable points

These could be easily explained away if not true