Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[vegster]

An extra 50 people might get runny nose/sore throats next week?

For the majority of us empathy comes naturally, I'm hoping yours has just been delayed but will come in time. Happy New Year.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Closing down options for mixing in close contact is the sensible thing to do temporarily. The " Government " has told us all to be careful about close contacts and interactions but dare not actually try to stop it. Try to imagine the effects of 5-10 people who are Covid positive spending the evening in The king and Queen tonight ? Sadly common sense is, and will, continue to be in short supply.

But what is the purpose of this closedown?

Is it that in a fortnight covid will have been abolished and no-one need ever worry again?
Is it that in a fortnight the numbers will be so low that it will be spring or summer before they rebound?
Is it that in a fortnight we will be about where we are now but the impetus will have been lost so the numbers will start rising?
Is it that in a fortnight we will be about where we are now and we will take off from here as before?
Is it that in a fortnight the numbers will be still higher, but not as much higher as they might have been?

Honestly, I don't see how any sort of lockdown other than a long, very hard one is going to stop the spread of omicron. It spreads too easily. And when it is released, then off we go again. A less strict, temporary lockdown would do no good at all IMO. Can you tell me any reason why a lockdown-lite would work?

 

[dsr-burnley]

Dr Chris Smith gave some numbers a week ago, backing your comments.

Pre vaccines, 22% of Covid cases resulted in hospitalisation.

Dec 2021, 8%.

The vast majority of the infected, as I was, were a million miles away from being hospitalised, from using NHS resources.

It's surely less than that now. Estimated 2 million people had covid on the lasy week of December, with 800,000 of them testing positive. 8,000 were admitted to hospital. Even allowing for the delay in hospitalisations, I doubt that's anywhere near 8% either way.

 

[vegster]

But what is the purpose of this closedown?

Is it that in a fortnight covid will have been abolished and no-one need ever worry again?
Is it that in a fortnight the numbers will be so low that it will be spring or summer before they rebound?
Is it that in a fortnight we will be about where we are now but the impetus will have been lost so the numbers will start rising?
Is it that in a fortnight we will be about where we are now and we will take off from here as before?
Is it that in a fortnight the numbers will be still higher, but not as much higher as they might have been?

Honestly, I don't see how any sort of lockdown other than a long, very hard one is going to stop the spread of omicron. It spreads too easily. And when it is released, then off we go again. A less strict, temporary lockdown would do no good at all IMO. Can you tell me any reason why a lockdown-lite would work?

Its pretty obvious that the NHS and its staff are struggling, a little bit of enforced commonsence distancing would help limit the case numbers and ergo, the numbers of hospitalisations. If everybody limited their interactions it would slow infections, its not rocket science. but hey, wisdom is wasted on the old.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Its pretty obvious that the NHS and its staff are struggling, a little bit of enforced commonsence distancing would help limit the case numbers and ergo, the numbers of hospitalisations. If everybody limited their interactions it would slow infections, its not rocket science. but hey, wisdom is wasted on the old.

How long is a little bit? 2 weeks/3 weeks/longer?

Then when cases do rise rise again and the NHS management has done nothing to help itself, how long till the next one?

You do understand nothing but a complete shutdown will do achieve anything?

Thankfully it seems Labour is agreeing with the Government now on the best way to proceed.

 

[Weststander]

It's surely less than that now. Estimated 2 million people had covid on the lasy week of December, with 800,000 of them testing positive. 8,000 were admitted to hospital. Even allowing for the delay in hospitalisations, I doubt that's anywhere near 8% either way.

It was said immediately before Xmas that 1 in 20 Londoner’s had Covid, so 400,000. Obviously the epicentre.

Calling it, a wild estimate, of 1 in 40 elsewhere, that’s 1.7m in the UK.

Very close to your 2m.

 

[vegster]

How long is a little bit? 2 weeks/3 weeks/longer?

Then when cases do rise rise again and the NHS management has done nothing to help itself, how long till the next one?

You do understand nothing but a complete shutdown will do achieve anything?

Thankfully it seems Labour is agreeing with the Government now on the best way to proceed.

Odd that you forgot the official government policy long term was to try to " Flatten the curve " and limit the strain on the underfunded NHS. It's common-sense to limit mixing and merging to reduce transmission. .. Do you have any ideas how to reduce the strain on an underfunded and burnt out NHS ?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Odd that you forgot the official government policy long term was to try to " Flatten the curve " and limit the strain on the underfunded NHS. It's common-sense to limit mixing and merging to reduce transmission. .. Do you have any ideas how to reduce the strain on an underfunded and burnt out NHS ?

We’ve had the vaccine and massive booster campaign.

So again, how long for? You haven’t answered - no one who pushes more restrictions does - “limiting restrictions” won’t achieve anything it would have to be a total lockdown.

And when cases rise again you would bring the restrictions back in? What’s the cost benefit analysis of shutting down and opening up? How will A complete lockdown help now? London cases are already falling.

For a start they could have gotten rid of the ridiculous red tape for those wanting to come back and help, you could have trained up care help for non clinical treatment to shift some of the 10k bed blocking because they can’t leave hospitals as care homes won’t take them.

So what have the NHS management done to solve the issues, underfunded? Are you joking? They have had billions, it’s a black hole it needs a total reform.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It was said immediately before Xmas that 1 in 20 Londoner’s had Covid, so 400,000. Obviously the epicentre.

Calling it, a wild estimate, of 1 in 40 elsewhere, that’s 1.7m in the UK.

Very close to your 2m.

And people think a fire break will do anything

 

[LamieRobertson]

We’ve had the vaccine and massive booster campaign.

So again, how long for? You haven’t answered - no one who pushes more restrictions does - “limiting restrictions” won’t achieve anything it would have to be a total lockdown.

And when cases rise again you would bring the restrictions back in? What’s the cost benefit analysis of shutting down and opening up? How will A complete lockdown help now? London cases are already falling.

For a start they could have gotten rid of the ridiculous red tape for those wanting to come back and help, you could have trained up care help for non clinical treatment to shift some of the 10k bed blocking because they can’t leave hospitals as care homes won’t take them.

So what have the NHS management done to solve the issues, underfunded? Are you joking? They have had billions, it’s a black hole it needs a total reform.

What are these restrictions you talk of….it’s protections

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

What are these restrictions you talk of….it’s protections

A yes, the Chinese are locking people in their houses for protections

 

[beorhthelm]

Closing down options for mixing in close contact is the sensible thing to do temporarily. The " Government " has told us all to be careful about close contacts and interactions but dare not actually try to stop it. Try to imagine the effects of 5-10 people who are Covid positive spending the evening in The king and Queen tonight ? Sadly common sense is, and will, continue to be in short supply.

many there may get it. so let shut all the pubs. then when we reopen the pubs, if 5-10 people in a pub are positive, many there may get it. ad nauseum. except most cases are in the home, so unless we go full lockdown, shutting the pubs has minor effect. we where told we had to wait untill it could be contained, wait for a vaccine that means getting it would not matter much. well we're there now, so we can and should revert to near normality. this is not the disease we faced 20 months ago, its not going away, we live with it or we impoverish ourselves.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Totally off topic …but wishing EVERYONE on this thread a Happy, Prosperous and Healthy 2022


Goodnight

 

[Weststander]

And people think a fire break will do anything

Some countries are being swamped by both Omicron and far more deadly Delta. France today announced 145,000 Omicron cases and 87,000 Delta cases. 18,000 in hospital, 3,500 are which are in ICU.

Tailor-made possibly for a fire break, it seemed to work for the Netherlands and Austria this month. They don’t solve these crises, but can give breathing space to hospitals, although it didn’t work for Drakeford in 2020 where just weeks later Wales had the worst Covid rate in Europe.

The UK is not suffering from Delta, our hospital numbers so far aren’t at France levels with just 868 in ICU, is a fire break really necessary in the UK just now?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Some countries are being swamped by both Omicron and far more deadly Delta. France today announced 145,000 Omicron cases and 87,000 Delta cases. 18,000 in hospital, 3,500 are which are in ICU.

Tailor-made possibly for a fire break, it seemed to work for the Netherlands and Austria this month. They don’t solve these crises, but can give breathing space to hospitals, although it didn’t work for Drakeford in 2020 where just weeks later Wales had the worst Covid rate in Europe.

The UK is not suffering from Delta, our hospital numbers so far aren’t at France levels with just 868 in ICU, is a fire break really necessary in the UK just now?

Heard a French minister on the radio the other day saying the biggest mistake was not opening up in the summer and dealing with Delta then.

Johnson was right.

 

[Weststander]

Totally off topic …but wishing EVERYONE on this thread a Happy, Prosperous and Healthy 2022


Goodnight

Happy New Year.

Along with many others here, thank you for your positivity.

 

[Weststander]

Heard a French minister on the radio the other day saying the biggest mistake was not opening up in the summer and dealing with Delta then.

Johnson was right.

It wasn’t luck.

I remember back in July Whitty and/or others examining the theory about allowing natural immunity to build in summer months across the population, to protect the NHS in winter.

When academics/WHO review the pandemic, it’ll be a mixed bag in each country, certainly some right calls made by scientists and politicians in these isles.

 

[vegster]

We’ve had the vaccine and massive booster campaign.

So again, how long for? You haven’t answered - no one who pushes more restrictions does - “limiting restrictions” won’t achieve anything it would have to be a total lockdown.

And when cases rise again you would bring the restrictions back in? What’s the cost benefit analysis of shutting down and opening up? How will A complete lockdown help now? London cases are already falling.

For a start they could have gotten rid of the ridiculous red tape for those wanting to come back and help, you could have trained up care help for non clinical treatment to shift some of the 10k bed blocking because they can’t leave hospitals as care homes won’t take them.

So what have the NHS management done to solve the issues, underfunded? Are you joking? They have had billions, it’s a black hole it needs a total reform.

How long ? It is fairly obvious that the combination of winter and mixing and merging and the arrival of the much more transmissible Omicron variant have put additional strain on a NHS that is haemorrhaging frontline staff. So, who amongst those who have left are going to come back to join a sinking ship ? even if they have the right paperwork ? Did I say we should shutdown and do a complete lockdown ? A sensible reduction in contacts and interactions would do the trick but, there is little guidance from the clown in charge.

I look forward to when you take over the running of the NHS, I'm sure you can sort everything out including funding for care homes and domiciliary care as part of a joined up health care package for all. ... ps, you had best not get old and infirm unless you have good private health insurance in place or a decent size house you can sell off to pay for your care package. Happy New Year.

 

[vegster]

many there may get it. so let shut all the pubs. then when we reopen the pubs, if 5-10 people in a pub are positive, many there may get it. ad nauseum. except most cases are in the home, so unless we go full lockdown, shutting the pubs has minor effect. we where told we had to wait untill it could be contained, wait for a vaccine that means getting it would not matter much. well we're there now, so we can and should revert to near normality. this is not the disease we faced 20 months ago, its not going away, we live with it or we impoverish ourselves.

Looks like the majority view is that we are ****ed then ? maybe I should harden up my attitude and stop worrying about those with health issues who are less fortunate than me ? I really struggle with that though, bloody compassion... I can't get rid of it. Is it because sooner or later I'm going to be that person with health issues ?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

How long ? It is fairly obvious that the combination of winter and mixing and merging and the arrival of the much more transmissible Omicron variant have put additional strain on a NHS that is haemorrhaging frontline staff. So, who amongst those who have left are going to come back to join a sinking ship ? even if they have the right paperwork ? Did I say we should shutdown and do a complete lockdown ? A sensible reduction in contacts and interactions would do the trick but, there is little guidance from the clown in charge.

I look forward to when you take over the running of the NHS, I'm sure you can sort everything out including funding for care homes and domiciliary care as part of a joined up health care package for all. ... ps, you had best not get old and infirm unless you have good private health insurance in place or a decent size house you can sell off to pay for your care package. Happy New Year.

So obvious you won’t put a time frame on it?

Sounds like you are suggesting a full lockdown for months?

Plenty of people put their hands up to come back to help, but we’re put off.

Don’t forget Clown In charge now backed by Labour