Madeleine McCann...

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Anyway aside from all this there is pretty much no chance we will ever know the events that happened that night now.

I agree with that.

 

[keaton]

I was trying to make a point to someone who had posted about 'catastrophic neglect'.

I believe all parents will have had that moment, at a supermarket or shops, where you look away and when you look back your child isn't there. Your heart jumps and 10 seconds later, you find them behind a trolley, round the next aisle or behind a display of beans. If that has happened to you as a parent, you have been in a situation where you could have been responsible for 'catastrophic neglect' according to the poster.

If it hasn't happened to you as a parent, then you should probably buy a lottery ticket or see a doctor (Extremely lucky or Obsessive).

Do you know what 'catastrophic' means?

 

[soistes]

Do you really think there is no risk with leaving a child alone for half an hour? If there is no risk we would all do it.

It entirely depends on what you mean by "leaving the child alone" and where you draw the line. I would imagine most people leave their kids upstairs in bed while they're downstairs watching the telly (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Some might, on a summer evening leave the child in bed, while they sat in the garden with a can of beer (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Others, might just nip next door for a quick word with the neighbour, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although, of course, the child could be silently choking). What about going round to next door but one, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although of course....). Etc etc, it's entirely a matter of judgement where you draw the line, and what counts as negligent. All parents take risks, some small, some bigger, but most risks do not lead to these kinds of outcomes.

This kind of risk-averse culture, and the kind of pompous judgement of 'negligent' parents coming from some of the know-it-alls on NSC, is exactly what leads to an increasingly ridiculous over-protection of children of all ages, who aren't allowed to walk on their own to school, play out after dark, climb trees etc etc, in case "something bad" happens to them.

I, for one, don't see the McCanns as negligent. The key point here is that, actually nothing "happened" to the child; the child would have been entirely safe, but for someone sneaking in abducting her. Surely the only person deserving of condemnation here is the abductor, not the poor parents?

 

[Del Fenner]

I, for one, don't see the McCanns as negligent. The key point here is that, actually nothing "happened" to the child; the child would have been entirely safe, but for someone sneaking in abducting her. Surely the only person deserving of condemnation here is the abductor, not the poor parents?

It seems that we don't actually know whether something did happen to the child, or whether someone did abduct the child. Those not involved in the events of that night are almost completely in the dark about what has actually happened.

 

[somerset]

I was walking for half an hour to school and back alone when I was ten. When I was eleven I'd be left home alone in the school holidays. That was normal then.

These kids were three and one.

 

[somerset]

What would people on Nsc agree would be an acceptable age to leave a child/teenager at home alone.

From say nine or ten,... no earlier.... and then only for short trips to shop/school etc..... evening hours I would say not until 12/13..... overnight, not until 15/16.

 

[BLOCK F]

It entirely depends on what you mean by "leaving the child alone" and where you draw the line. I would imagine most people leave their kids upstairs in bed while they're downstairs watching the telly (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Some might, on a summer evening leave the child in bed, while they sat in the garden with a can of beer (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Others, might just nip next door for a quick word with the neighbour, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although, of course, the child could be silently choking). What about going round to next door but one, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although of course....). Etc etc, it's entirely a matter of judgement where you draw the line, and what counts as negligent. All parents take risks, some small, some bigger, but most risks do not lead to these kinds of outcomes.

This kind of risk-averse culture, and the kind of pompous judgement of 'negligent' parents coming from some of the know-it-alls on NSC, is exactly what leads to an increasingly ridiculous over-protection of children of all ages, who aren't allowed to walk on their own to school, play out after dark, climb trees etc etc, in case "something bad" happens to them.

I, for one, don't see the McCanns as negligent. The key point here is that, actually nothing "happened" to the child; the child would have been entirely safe, but for someone sneaking in abducting her. Surely the only person deserving of condemnation here is the abductor, not the poor parents?

Spot on.

 

[piersa]

There are a lot of ivory towers on this thread and pound to a penny, a lot of hypocrisy.

 

[Deadly Danson]

It entirely depends on what you mean by "leaving the child alone" and where you draw the line. I would imagine most people leave their kids upstairs in bed while they're downstairs watching the telly (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Some might, on a summer evening leave the child in bed, while they sat in the garden with a can of beer (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Others, might just nip next door for a quick word with the neighbour, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although, of course, the child could be silently choking). What about going round to next door but one, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although of course....). Etc etc, it's entirely a matter of judgement where you draw the line, and what counts as negligent. All parents take risks, some small, some bigger, but most risks do not lead to these kinds of outcomes.

This kind of risk-averse culture, and the kind of pompous judgement of 'negligent' parents coming from some of the know-it-alls on NSC, is exactly what leads to an increasingly ridiculous over-protection of children of all ages, who aren't allowed to walk on their own to school, play out after dark, climb trees etc etc, in case "something bad" happens to them.

I, for one, don't see the McCanns as negligent. The key point here is that, actually nothing "happened" to the child; the child would have been entirely safe, but for someone sneaking in abducting her. Surely the only person deserving of condemnation here is the abductor, not the poor parents?

Bingo.

 

[Triggaaar]

I believe all parents will have had that moment, at a supermarket or shops, where you look away and when you look back your child isn't there. Your heart jumps and 10 seconds later, you find them behind a trolley, round the next aisle or behind a display of beans. If that has happened to you as a parent, you have been in a situation where you could have been responsible for 'catastrophic neglect' according to the poster.

The poster accused the McCanns of catastrophic neglect. Regardless of that, you are saying that if you are with your child and they disappear without you seeing (like in a supermarket), that is the same as going out for dinner while leaving your children at home. It's not the same.

 

[Berty23]

It entirely depends on what you mean by "leaving the child alone" and where you draw the line. I would imagine most people leave their kids upstairs in bed while they're downstairs watching the telly (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Some might, on a summer evening leave the child in bed, while they sat in the garden with a can of beer (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Others, might just nip next door for a quick word with the neighbour, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although, of course, the child could be silently choking). What about going round to next door but one, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although of course....). Etc etc, it's entirely a matter of judgement where you draw the line, and what counts as negligent. All parents take risks, some small, some bigger, but most risks do not lead to these kinds of outcomes.

This kind of risk-averse culture, and the kind of pompous judgement of 'negligent' parents coming from some of the know-it-alls on NSC, is exactly what leads to an increasingly ridiculous over-protection of children of all ages, who aren't allowed to walk on their own to school, play out after dark, climb trees etc etc, in case "something bad" happens to them.

I, for one, don't see the McCanns as negligent. The key point here is that, actually nothing "happened" to the child; the child would have been entirely safe, but for someone sneaking in abducting her. Surely the only person deserving of condemnation here is the abductor, not the poor parents?

By leaving alone I meant leaving the kid at home to walk 3/4 mile to school and back.

This is NOT comparable to taking your eye off kid in shop and they vanish for 10 seconds. You have not done that on purpose.

 

[Berty23]

Bingo.

Is it. Where do you draw the line? This is unrelated but the point stands. If you leave a child unsupervised near a known kidnapper is the parent at no fault for doing it just te kidnapper?

Parents are responsible for children. Especially three under the age of 4. We do live in a nanny state but saying leaving kids alone is not bad parenting is bizarre. I say scrap the whole child minder industry. Leave the kids to it.

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

For what it is worth i have a three year old girl and wouldnt dream of leaving her in the position that they left her in. They couldnt see the apartment from where they were eating, totally different from sitting in Your back garden while your child is asleep upstairs. Look at the map of the complex and see where their apartment was, it isnt just over the other side of the pool.

We are always in range of a monitor whenshe is asleep mainly for our peace of mind should she wake up distressed, it is rare for instance to have a three year old who would wake up needing the toilet to be able to do that themselves. Of course this doesnt mean that they are remotely to blame for what happened but they were in my opinion negligent and if i was in their shoes i could never forgive myself. It is totally different again in my view to the bulger case where it was an instant thing for the little boy to walk off while his mum was distracted.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

For what it is worth i have a three year old girl and wouldnt dream of leaving her in the position that they left her in. They couldnt see the apartment from where they were eating, totally different from sitting in Your back garden while your child is asleep upstairs. Look at the map of the complex and see where their apartment was, it isnt just over the other side of the pool.

We are always in range of a monitor whenshe is asleep mainly for our peace of mind should she wake up distressed, it is rare for instance to have a three year old who would wake up needing the toilet to be able to do that themselves. Of course this doesnt mean that they are remotely to blame for what happened but they were in my opinion negligent and if i was in their shoes i could never forgive myself. It is totally different again in my view to the bulger case where it was an instant thing for the little boy to walk off while his mum was distracted.

I mentioned Ben Needham earlier who was abducted/taken from his grandparents garden in Kos 20 years ago. He was never found.
http://www.helpfindben.co.uk/

 

[Leighgull]

I mentioned Ben Needham earlier who was abducted/taken from his grandparents garden in Kos 20 years ago. He was never found.
http://www.helpfindben.co.uk/

Another massive bungle by the local fuzz there too.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Another massive bungle by the local fuzz there too.

It was, especially as it should have been easier to seal the island.

 

[drew]

Agree with BigGully above. I am stunned that there are people on here who are blaming the parents for this due to their negligence.

Presumably Billie Jo Jenkins should never have been left at home

Sarah Payne should never have been allowed to play outside

James Bulger's mother should never have looked away

I just can't understand how any loving parent's first reaction would be to blame the parents. But there are obviously parents on here who have never so much as glanced away from their children for 18 years.

Nobody, as far as I'm aware, is saying it was their first reaction. As a loving parent I can't understand all these child abuse cases, Baby P, Hamzah Khan, Victoria Climbe, the list is worringly long but the list is there. As for this case, until she is found and a culprit identified then there will always be an element of doubt about the parents. With regard to your comment, they didn't just glance away did they. They left a 3 year old with her 18 month old siblings alone in a flat whilst they went to another part of the complex to have meal. Maybe as a parent you did that all the time but I can assue you the we never did.

It entirely depends on what you mean by "leaving the child alone" and where you draw the line. I would imagine most people leave their kids upstairs in bed while they're downstairs watching the telly (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Some might, on a summer evening leave the child in bed, while they sat in the garden with a can of beer (although, of course, the child could be silently choking...). Others, might just nip next door for a quick word with the neighbour, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although, of course, the child could be silently choking). What about going round to next door but one, while the kid is upstairs in bed (although of course....). Etc etc, it's entirely a matter of judgement where you draw the line, and what counts as negligent. All parents take risks, some small, some bigger, but most risks do not lead to these kinds of outcomes.

This kind of risk-averse culture, and the kind of pompous judgement of 'negligent' parents coming from some of the know-it-alls on NSC, is exactly what leads to an increasingly ridiculous over-protection of children of all ages, who aren't allowed to walk on their own to school, play out after dark, climb trees etc etc, in case "something bad" happens to them.

I, for one, don't see the McCanns as negligent. The key point here is that, actually nothing "happened" to the child; the child would have been entirely safe, but for someone sneaking in abducting her. Surely the only person deserving of condemnation here is the abductor, not the poor parents?

Sorry but your post is ridiculous. You imply that as you can't eliminate all risk then you might as well not bother about any risk and let the kids take their chances. Yes kids die from silently choking, however others that choke are saved because their parent/carer heard them choking and did something about it. Also, the key point is that if one of them had stayed in the flat the abduction wouldn't have taken place. Out of interest, what's the furthest you went away and left your 3 yr old?

For what it is worth i have a three year old girl and wouldnt dream of leaving her in the position that they left her in. They couldnt see the apartment from where they were eating, totally different from sitting in Your back garden while your child is asleep upstairs. Look at the map of the complex and see where their apartment was, it isnt just over the other side of the pool.

We are always in range of a monitor whenshe is asleep mainly for our peace of mind should she wake up distressed, it is rare for instance to have a three year old who would wake up needing the toilet to be able to do that themselves. Of course this doesnt mean that they are remotely to blame for what happened but they were in my opinion negligent and if i was in their shoes i could never forgive myself. It is totally different again in my view to the bulger case where it was an instant thing for the little boy to walk off while his mum was distracted.

This.

 

[Wints]

Can't believe all the c****s on here saying what's the right thing to do!!! Of course all these people have never left their children out of sight ever? Wtf!!!!

 

[drew]

Can't believe all the c****s on here saying what's the right thing to do!!! Of course all these people have never left their children out of sight ever? Wtf!!!!

 

[Noldi]

What I don't understand is somebody has come forward after all this time to say they saw a man carrying a young girl towards the beach at 10pm on the evening she disappeared, then police say they have received 1,000 emails after last nights crime watch, all these people what the hell where they doing for the last few years not watching tv or reading news papers ? surely if they really knew anything they would have come forward before.