Madeleine McCann...

[User removed 4]

You've been spending too much time with those mongs on House Of Fun.

It was a ridiculous comparison.

 

[MissGull]

I was walking for half an hour to school and back alone when I was ten. When I was eleven I'd be left home alone in the school holidays. That was normal then.

 

[BLOCK F]

Too right. I hate people who claim to never cast judgement on anyone

Smart arse.

 

[BigGully]

I do plenty of silly things but I would never put my kids at any risk to save a few quid or so I could enjoy a night out. Judge me if you like.

Do you think it is okay to leave a child still to reach its first birthday alone for half an hour?

If so then I am pleased I am not your kid, if not then I don't get your point.

Depends what your 'silly things are' before I judge.

I think the point being made is that perhaps your unwanted intervention was on behalf of a risk that didnt exist.

Personally I cannot think of leaving a child that young, but whether I am at the school gates, or sipping a Chablis in my front room with my child upstairs the dynamics are similar.

It just felt that you had some superior parental conduct going on when you chose to berate that mother .......

 

[Berty23]

Depends what your 'silly things are' before I judge.

I think the point being made is that perhaps your unwanted intervention was on behalf of a risk that didnt exist.

Personally I cannot think of leaving a child that young, but whether I am at the school gates, or sipping a Chablis in my front room with my child upstairs the dynamics are similar.

It just felt that you had some superior parental conduct going on when you chose to berate that mother .......

Do you really think there is no risk with leaving a child alone for half an hour? If there is no risk we would all do it.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

There are people that think the parents know something, and I don't agree with a lot of what's been said. But just picking you up on a point: blaming the parents may not be people's first reaction, this case is not new.

Whilst I don't fully blame the parents, I do feel that they were negligent. Like if someone crashes into your car and you're not wearing a seat belt. It's not your fault they crashed into you, but you have contributory negligence for your injuries. I have a 5 and 6 year old, one of which can't walk, so it's a fair bit of work every time I have to go up the road to collect his sister, for example. But I've never left either of them in the house alone. I think most people are the same, they wouldn't leave a young child at home alone, but I know plenty of people who do. On the school run I've seen plenty of mum's who've left their youngest at home asleep, while they collect their older child - they're not doing it on a daily basis, but it's happened and they're fine with the idea of leaving them for half an hour or more. That's not something I could do though.

I agree with you. Years ago my wife and I left our children, my daughter 11 and hers 12 (previous marriages) when they were having their hair braided, in a small market place near to our holiday camp in the south of France. After 30 mins they hadn't returned so I went back to the place they were last at. The lady was packing up and said they had left 15 mins ago. 1 hour, a frantic passage of time, passed before I found them "wondering" about without a care in the world.

Now my wife and I still think back to that day even to this day and relive the horror however, the children were 11 and 12, they were able to think for themselves (perhaps!!) and had promised to come back straight away. We were to blame as were they. In the McCann case the parents were totally to blame for leaving their children to fend for themselves and that is something that for children so young should never be the case. Someone posted earlier about leaving youngsters in the garden etc. Again I would never leave a very young child in a garden or such place on their own and certainly not in another building no matter how close it may be.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

It's a shame we can't get the lovely Kathryn Morris in to solve this cold case! View attachment 47676

I am suspicious of the parents and a lot of the evidence, from the dogs, nobody actually confirming if Gerry was at the Tapas bar at the time, or Kate not answering questions, the fact they would have to have been extremely unlucky to have not only left the child but have a kidnapper in the vicinity and have a bungling police force etc etc. But, if they had anything to do with it, it would take a very vile person and especially a woman to kill or cover up the murder of her own daughter. This is the only thing that makes me think and hope that they had nothing to do with it.

The Dogs do not provide "evidence" they are called indicator dogs and they are trained to detect whether a corpse has lain in some position. They apparently indicated that a body had been left behind the sofa....but...like I said earlier, the body could only have been there for a maximum of 20 minutes from when she disappeared to when the apartment was searched. This is too soon for any discernible scent to be laid down by a body.

If the only reason you think that the parents had nothing to do with it is that you find it difficult to imagine a parent, especially a mother, having anything to do with it then you haven't read the evidence.

Do you remember all the talk that Maddies hair showed evidence of repeated administration of sedatives (both parents are medical Doctors).? Well, that turned out to be wrong...Police gossip, the talk that Maddies blood spatters were found in the apartment? Also wrong, Police Gossip, the car being left open to blow the stench of rotting corpse out? Wrong, wrong, wrong.

There's been so much incompetence, misinformation, malicious speculation and unfounded accusations that it's frankly disgusting.

 

[BigGully]

Do you really think there is no risk with leaving a child alone for half an hour? If there is no risk we would all do it.

Again I wouldnt leave a child that young, but trying to qualify the risk is a little harder.

Main reason for never leaving the child is perhaps, fire, some sudden fit/choking, but probably the most likely waking up and needing attention so no I wouldnt leave a child that young, but the probable outcome is continues sleeping without incident.

 

[janee]

Agree with BigGully above. I am stunned that there are people on here who are blaming the parents for this due to their negligence.

Presumably Billie Jo Jenkins should never have been left at home

Sarah Payne should never have been allowed to play outside

James Bulger's mother should never have looked away

I just can't understand how any loving parent's first reaction would be to blame the parents. But there are obviously parents on here who have never so much as glanced away from their children for 18 years.

I have thought long and hard about why the great British public are so quick to blame the McCanns. I think it's just such a horrific thing to happen and nobody really knows why that we all just want an answer - in order to avoid the horror of not knowing, we try and blame somebody.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I was walking for half an hour to school and back alone when I was ten. When I was eleven I'd be left home alone in the school holidays. That was normal then.

Bit of a glimpse into my life here...

My mum ( a single parent) would leave my sister and I alone when we were 4 or 5 and go out in Liverpool with her mates, We were latchkey kids for as long as I can remember going to school as she went to work all day.

This was totally, totally WRONG I have never forgiven her for leaving such small kids at home while she was miles away and I would never leave my little kids at home while I went out for the evening. She's a selfish bitch, always was always will be and, to this day I wouldn't leave her alone with my kids.

I would, however, not think twice about sitting in my Garden while they slept upstairs which is about equidistant to where the McCanns were eating that night. they paid a very, very price for doing something that most people are guilty of in one way or another.

 

[Nibble]

I have thought long and hard about why the great British public are so quick to blame the McCanns. I think it's just such a horrific thing to happen and nobody really knows why that we all just want an answer - in order to avoid the horror of not knowing, we try and blame somebody.

There's probably some truth in that. Though in cold hard reality there are probably only 2 or 3 possible scenarios and we all know what they are.

 

[bluenitsuj]

I think bluenitsuj has been abducted. Anyone checked on him last half hour?

I escaped and am safely back. Bloody I phone decided I had finished my post without checking with me first.

 

[Triggaaar]

I made a woman furious who did just this. We were chatting at school, I asked where youngest was, she said at home sleeping and I said that is a silly thing to do (words to that effect). She told me it was up to her how she cared for her baby. I said "I guess but if it happens again you might get a call from social services."

Yes I might be a miserable sod but I think it is important.

Exactly. I haven't said a word to a couple of the mums I know that have done this (I don't want to fall out with them), but I was surprised when they told me, so I came home and checked the law (this was over a year ago). There isn't a specific age at which you can leave a child at home (details are NSPCC website or similar), because some 10 year olds are more responsible than some 12 year olds etc, but it's generally thought (from those websites) it's ages around 11.* Can your child deal with someone who rings the doorbell, can they deal with a fire in the house (get out safely). I know the children of the parents I'm talking about couldn't. A fire would mean a dead child.

We were to blame as were they.

I blame you I was too young when I was 11 to be left on foreign streets. My parents just let me go off on my own in Corfu when I was 15 - I caught the bus somewhere to go shopping. That was an ordeal, when I tried to hail a bus home, the bus drivers wouldn't stop - they obviously ignored me as I was just a kid.

* Oh, here we go:

There is no law for this but the guideline is 13/14 if only for a few hours and dependant on the child, ie if they are sensible, grown up for their age etc.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-advice/for-parents/keeping-your-child-safe/being-home-alone/home-alone_wda96754.html

 

[Triggaaar]

I would, however, not think twice about sitting in my Garden while they slept upstairs which is about equidistant to where the McCanns were eating that night.

All I've seen is the picture posted in this thread. You sir, don't have a garden, you have a ranch. It's a fair distance right?

If we were in our garden, we'd have a chance of hearing someone breaking in. I get the impression that's not the same in the McCann case, where they were out for dinner, and there's noise etc where they are.

 

[Nibble]

When I was a pup, maybe 4 or 5 my Mum worked nights and my Dad was supposed to be home looking us. My Dad would regularly chip off to the pub and come back at 4 or 5am. Me and my brother used to get out of the house and go playing around the lakes and woods at 1, 2, 3 in the morning. Anything could have happened to us. That is out of the norm but bizarre what parents used to think acceptable.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

James Bulger's mother should never have looked away

Ask yourself why would a young child be outside the shop on his lonesome when his mum was inside? Whilst the outcome was absolutely tragic, I wouldn't leave my son outside a shop on his own. Neither would I leave my child alone asleep where the Mccans did but I find that far easier to understand given the security that they perceived was there at the time. Just seems like a case of double standards to me.

 

[The Wizard]

The Dogs do not provide "evidence" they are called indicator dogs and they are trained to detect whether a corpse has lain in some position. They apparently indicated that a body had been left behind the sofa....but...like I said earlier, the body could only have been there for a maximum of 20 minutes from when she disappeared to when the apartment was searched. This is too soon for any discernible scent to be laid down by a body.

If the only reason you think that the parents had nothing to do with it is that you find it difficult to imagine a parent, especially a mother, having anything to do with it then you haven't read the evidence.

Do you remember all the talk that Maddies hair showed evidence of repeated administration of sedatives (both parents are medical Doctors).? Well, that turned out to be wrong...Police gossip, the talk that Maddies blood spatters were found in the apartment? Also wrong, Police Gossip, the car being left open to blow the stench of rotting corpse out? Wrong, wrong, wrong.

There's been so much incompetence, misinformation, malicious speculation and unfounded accusations that it's frankly disgusting.

Can I just say you do talk a lot of sense, I think it's obvious we disagree on the events that happened that night however you seem very knowledgable about it all, more so than me. As you say whatever did happen, we are never likely to find out due to the bungling Portuguese police who made a complete mess of everything, I don't believe now, 6 years on,that there is any hope of us ever finding out what happened for sure? I say maybe a 1% chance at most. This probably would have all ended differently if it wasn't for disastrous policing and the parents had just used the night crèche. For me in my opibion, leaving a child if 3 and 2 younger babies in a hotel room in a strange foriegn country is completely abhorrent, be honest parents on here, would you do that? ESPECIALLY given there was a night crèche. Anyway aside from all this there is pretty much no chance we will ever know the events that happened that night now.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Me and my brother used to get out of the house and go playing around the lakes and woods at 1, 2, 3 in the morning. Anything could have happened to us.

Looks like you should've been mentioned in the credits of The Blair Witch Project

 

[WATFORD zero]

Ask yourself why would a young child be outside the shop on his lonesome when his mum was inside? Whilst the outcome was absolutely tragic, I wouldn't leave my son outside a shop on his own. Neither would I leave my child alone asleep where the Mccans did but I find that far easier to understand given the security that they perceived was there at the time. Just seems like a case of double standards to me.

I was trying to make a point to someone who had posted about 'catastrophic neglect'.

I believe all parents will have had that moment, at a supermarket or shops, where you look away and when you look back your child isn't there. Your heart jumps and 10 seconds later, you find them behind a trolley, round the next aisle or behind a display of beans. If that has happened to you as a parent, you have been in a situation where you could have been responsible for 'catastrophic neglect' according to the poster.

If it hasn't happened to you as a parent, then you should probably buy a lottery ticket or see a doctor (Extremely lucky or Obsessive).

 

[Nibble]

Looks like you should've been mentioned in the credits of The Blair Witch Project

Ha, would have been freaky for anyone walking back late at night. Two 5 year old twins running around the woods and lake at night in their pyjamas. Seemed normal at the time. I haven't thought of that for years.