Lynch in trouble

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

BoF - you make sense - well argued. Are you able to elaborate on this comment "> Wilkins could not be trusted as he was, seemingly acting for a player and his agent, rather than supporting the club." or point us in the direction of the source/discussion?

 

[Twinkle Toes]

All i said is THERE IS two sides to any story and certain PRICKS on here only ever hear the club/chairmans side - two many people have left this club and never say much yet it is NEVER the clubs fault - Just because the club or Argus say things doesn't make them right

Just stick your tiresome theories where the sun don't shine. Nobody cares about what you think goes on at our club, & all you do is continually embarrass yourself & your mate Wendy.

 

[Early Doors]

I think from the way that everything has been done at this club in the past 18 months it can't always be the players/staff can it ?? - Savage, Hammond, Ocallaghan,Wilkins Chapman Lynch Robinson - Why oh oh why is it always the people that leave the club that are in the wrong?

" Assistant manager Dean White said: “We have monitored Joel’s progress at Nottingham Forest throughout the season, keeping a regular eye on him in matches, as we would with any player of ours on loan at another club.

“Additionally, I have kept in touch and spoken with Joel several times over the last eight months or so, and the last time was only a fortnight ago.
I'm surprised that he can make a phone call because he has his head so far up certain peoples arses at the club all you can see is his shoes.

People at this club need to be HONEST with the fans

A MESSAGE FOR DICK KNIGHT - BOOKER AND WHITE NEED TO GO AND YOU NEED TO LET RUSSELL SLADE MANAGE AND RUN THE TEAM HOW HE WANTS TOO - WE HAVE LOST FAR TO MANY GOOD PEOPLE AT THIS CLUB WITH YOUR CONTINUAL INTERFERENCE

You (as always) are only focussing on one side of the argument. What about players that seem to like/love working for BHA? Players like Kuipers, Mayo, Hart, Whing, Forster, ElAbd, Elphick to name just a few, but as many as you have.

 

[Frutos]

Who needs Lynch anyway once we get McNulty fit?

Get what we can for him and move on.

 

[Horney]

Forest are trying to get Lynch on the cheap, as an initial cash offer proved.
DK, quite rightly, turned it down.
At the right price, he should go....the team spirit that was evident recently must be carried forward to next season.
The Argus, I'm afraid, has lacked class since the retirement of John Vinicombe and this latest " dross " is a prime example.

 

[Jim D]

........ if JL made it clear he doesnt want to be here and play for us he will have to accept considerably less, probably £100k..........

I hope that Knight doesn't panic on this deal. We have JL signed for the next 2 years and we don't need to sell him in the summer. Forest may want him on the cheap but we should hold out for at least £250K. After all, Forest are about to get £400K for nothing from the FL.

 

[Frutos]

we don't need to sell him in the summer.

Question is, is that actually the case?

We had losses of 3 million quid in the last financial year, so I'm sure that (for example), 250k or so for a player who shows no interest whatsoever in playing for our football club would be a help in that respect.

 

[Acker79]

BoF - you make sense - well argued. Are you able to elaborate on this comment "> Wilkins could not be trusted as he was, seemingly acting for a player and his agent, rather than supporting the club." or point us in the direction of the source/discussion?

See, to me, that doesn't make sense. Surely that is good management skill by Dean? The players know the deal they make is with the club, not the manager, so if the club are unwilling to pay it is the club's decision.

If Dean goes to bat for a player in the board room, that player will feel like they should go to bat for their manger on the pitch. It also gives the other players confidence that the manager is going to look after them as much as he can, in the board room.

By getting rid of Dean or that reason, you're essentially tellingthe players they're all alone. The new guy (in this case, Adams) is on the side of the bard and he's not going to fight for you.

Why would they play for him?

It's a typical structure in business, the middle management guys act like a buffer, they go to bat for the lower workers to upper management, and they take the heat from the board.

So I don't believe the rumours that it was Dean siding with the players that led to his firing, I'm sure Knight has an understanding of this sort of workplace dynamics.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

..................................If Dean goes to bat for a player in the board room, that player will feel like they should go to bat for their manger on the pitch. It also gives the other players confidence that the manager is going to look after them as much as he can, in the board room.

...................................

It's a typical structure in business, the middle management guys act like a buffer, they go to bat for the lower workers to upper management, and they take the heat from the board.

........................

And if the issue(s) are outside of your remit but, despite your managerial reponsibility, you not only take a position contrary to your employer but make commitments to the employee(s) concerned that you cannot deliver and also discuss your intentions (negotiate?) with an external third party who has a vested financial interest in the outcome?
I'd expect this to be seen as disloyal and undermining your employer; the involvement with the TP could even be misconduct.
Still, it's all hypothetical eh?

 

[Acker79]

And if the issue(s) are outside of your remit but, despite your managerial reponsibility, you not only take a position contrary to your employer but make commitments to the employee(s) concerned that you cannot deliver and also discuss your intentions (negotiate?) with an external third party who has a vested financial interest in the outcome?
I'd expect this to be seen as disloyal and undermining your employer; the involvement with the TP could even be misconduct.
Still, it's all hypothetical eh?

Sorry, that's all too cryptic for me, all I've heard is a simple "Dean supported the players during negotiations".

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Sorry, that's all too cryptic for me, all I've heard is a simple "Dean supported the players during negotiations".

Try this then.
Player contracts are not in the remit of the team manager so discussing potential terms with players and their agents during the negotiation process (that is being handled by the Chairman) is likely to get you into trouble.

 

[Acker79]

Ah. Well that is slightly different.

I don't have a problem with manager asking them what they want, so he get it from them, with their reasoning, so you can put their side forward when he, as manager, tells the board he wants the player.

But I guess running the negotiations when not authorised to do so isn't really great. Not sure if it's misconduct, but I tend to associate 'misconduct' with rule breaking behaviour, not with doing things above your station, though I guess that it would probably be the same thing, technically.

 

[The Oldman]

In Andy Naylor's review of the season he makes 2 comments , one on Wilkins and one on Adams describe the power struggle that went on.

Here's the Wilkins bit


"The sadness of Wilkins’ departure was that Albion lost not a manager but a gifted coach.

Wilkins was not cut out for management. A view held by many – not all – within the club was that seventh place had been achieved last season in spite of him, not because of him.

When he predictably – and understandably – turned down the club’s offer to remain as coach under Adams, the players lost his expertise on the training ground.

This applied, in particular, to the young players he had mentored and who formed the core of his squad.

They, as a group, had been over-hyped. Adams decided more experience and know-how was needed. "

Here's the Adams piece


"A flattering victory at ten-man Southend towards the end of August briefly elevated Albion to the top of the table, further fuelling expectation.

Then, as results deteriorated, confidence drained and the dream of promotion evaporated, niggling frustrations behind the scenes began to gnaw away at Adams.

A particular bone of contention was his relationship – or rather lack of one – with chief scout Barry Lloyd.

They had very different ideas about the type of players required and Adams was bemused that Lloyd – the eyes and ears of major investor Tony Bloom – was not directly under his control.

Adams was not used to this. In the old days he had only Dick Knight to deal with. Now he found a club where the chairman’s power was no longer absolute.

Others on the Board, while not disputing the wisdom of Adams’ re-appointment, did not share Knight’s patience and unswerving faith.

A flurry of loan signings mid-season, spearheaded by Robbie Savage, did not improve matters. In most cases, with the exception of Bradley Johnson, they made little impact and Albion simply got them fit before they returned to their parent clubs."

 

[y2dave]

I personally hope we keep him, has all the attributes to be a class defender, if we can get him motivated and switched on he could be our most talented home grown player.

 

[Knotty]

I personally hope we keep him, has all the attributes to be a class defender, if we can get him motivated and switched on he could be our most talented home grown player.

I thought that 3 years ago, but have had my doubts since. Would be delighted if you were right, though!

 

[Rookie]

I personally hope we keep him, has all the attributes to be a class defender, if we can get him motivated and switched on he could be our most talented home grown player.

agree 100% a season playing championship football can only have benefited his game. Not really fussed what he said on private social network site he would improve the squad and as long as Slade wants him back (and he wants to come back) that is all that matters.

 

[Mackenzie]

From the Nottingham Echo:

Forest boss Davies: Lynch can still get better
Saturday, May 16, 2009,

BILLY Davies today praised Joel Lynch for the key role he played in Nottingham Forest's survival push.
The Reds boss was delighted with the contribution of the on-loan defender and the club are hoping to make his move from Brighton a permanent one.
But, while he praised the 19-year-old, Davies expects him to continue his learning curve in the future.
"There has been a definite improvement from him but there is still more to come," said Davies. "Then we have to decide whether he is a left back or whether he is a left-sided centre back.
"Joel is only 19, he has a lot to learn. There is a definite improvement in him over the last few months. But there is room for that to continue."
Davies hinted that he may also have a new left back on his summer shopping list – particularly with Julian Bennett recovering from a serious knee injury.
"There is still a lot to do for Joel and we still need to have competition in that area," added Davies. "Lynch is a certain type of full-back and we need a different type as well.
"With regard to Julian, we are looking at October or November before he is back in contention."

Fans Quotes:
I wish we'd get on with it. We know we need Lynch as Bennett is months away from being fit. What's happening with Blackstock & Gunter? U reds. The Grim Reaper, Lower Brian Clough Stand Erm, actualy boss, I'm 21 and therefore old enough for a bit of legal bum fun. Joel Lynch, Brighton

Why are we talking about Lynch, when Reading have just realesed
Murty
Dubbery
Lita
Hahnemann
Come on Billy all 4 could do a job for us!!!!!!!! Wisbech red, SIGN THEM UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I for one at the begining slated Lynch, and thought he was one of if not the worse player ever to wear a Forest shirt. However he has proved me wrong in the later stages of the season with some excellant performances and some telling crosses into the box. His turn around in perfomance coincided with Billy's arrival, the cynic in me thought it was just so he could get a contract and then life on easy street, but I think Billy has genuinly bought the best out of him.I'd be glad to see him return on a perminant basis if the price was right. Joe Baker, Zigger Zagger






Sounds like Joel Lynch has left then.

 

[Whitterz]

From the Nottingham Echo:

Forest boss Davies: Lynch can still get better
Saturday, May 16, 2009,

BILLY Davies today praised Joel Lynch for the key role he played in Nottingham Forest's survival push.
The Reds boss was delighted with the contribution of the on-loan defender and the club are hoping to make his move from Brighton a permanent one.
But, while he praised the 19-year-old, Davies expects him to continue his learning curve in the future.
"There has been a definite improvement from him but there is still more to come," said Davies. "Then we have to decide whether he is a left back or whether he is a left-sided centre back.
"Joel is only 19, he has a lot to learn. There is a definite improvement in him over the last few months. But there is room for that to continue."
Davies hinted that he may also have a new left back on his summer shopping list – particularly with Julian Bennett recovering from a serious knee injury.
"There is still a lot to do for Joel and we still need to have competition in that area," added Davies. "Lynch is a certain type of full-back and we need a different type as well.
"With regard to Julian, we are looking at October or November before he is back in contention."

Fans Quotes:
I wish we'd get on with it. We know we need Lynch as Bennett is months away from being fit. What's happening with Blackstock & Gunter? U reds. The Grim Reaper, Lower Brian Clough Stand Erm, actualy boss, I'm 21 and therefore old enough for a bit of legal bum fun. Joel Lynch, Brighton

Why are we talking about Lynch, when Reading have just realesed
Murty
Dubbery
Lita
Hahnemann
Come on Billy all 4 could do a job for us!!!!!!!! Wisbech red, SIGN THEM UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I for one at the begining slated Lynch, and thought he was one of if not the worse player ever to wear a Forest shirt. However he has proved me wrong in the later stages of the season with some excellant performances and some telling crosses into the box. His turn around in perfomance coincided with Billy's arrival, the cynic in me thought it was just so he could get a contract and then life on easy street, but I think Billy has genuinly bought the best out of him.I'd be glad to see him return on a perminant basis if the price was right. Joe Baker, Zigger Zagger






Sounds like Joel Lynch has left then.

Joel Lynch is 21 actually Mr Davies.

 

[Rookie]

As good as gone and even Slade says it in the Argus. Big shame, quality player, but never mind

 

[British Bulldog]

As good as gone and even Slade says it in the Argus. Big shame, quality player, but never mind

Forest can see it just a shame Adams could'nt.