[Albion] Luton/Spurs/Sheff Utd away tickets

[Uh_huh_him]

you're trying to make out there's "better" fans than others... Ultimately, they are all Brighton fans, there's no better or wors "I've been recently so I deserve a ticket" just as much as "i went when we were shit so I deserve a ticket"

End of the day, the scheme rules are fairly clear and by in large accommodates most.

As I keep saying, if you want a ticket, get in the top tier.... You can get there and its possible to work your way up.

"Better fans" no not really.
There are a fair few of T1 who used to not turn up to home League cup games, because the points weren't worth it to watch the kids.

But as the LP process makes a point of classifying attendance for T1 only, Why bother with any banding for T2 at all?

 

[saafend_seagull]

They should do loyalty points for the paint pot cup. Reckon would bring 5000 people to it for the quarter finals if at home.

 

[drew]

Dont disagree - regrettably the formula for away games was only disclosed widely across this forum in the lead-up to this sale window.. If we knew the math I imagine many would have upped their attendance

You never said whether you had Sheff and Spuds tickets?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Brief response. STH tiers are set thus:

Tier 1: The allocation
Tier 2: 25% of STHs
Tier 3: 50% of STHs
Tier 4: All STHs

cc: @Giraffe

Ahhh.

So much for the much vaunted: "Tony's algorithm" argument.

 

[drew]

If points halve every season-end & then points are applied for each away fixture - then somebody on 246ish would be in the category I describe - either that or a STH of a few years only who has been to every* away fixture.

The logic of applying tier 2 = 25% STHs minus allocation is somewhat different on a 1000 allocation to that of standard PL 3000.

Example as thus.. Applying a 90% take up of allocation on day 1 of sales…

STH 22,000? Minus 1000 allocation /4 = 5,250 chasing 100 tickets (10% leftover)

STH 22,000? Minus 3000 allocation /4 = 4,750 chasing 300 tickets (10% leftover)

So for Luton you have up to 52 people chasing each seat & a normal PL away about 15 - if all of Tier 2 were to try…
That is a big differential - if the scheme is designed to reward loyalty then its current format does need review..

Anyhow - good luck to anyone who did make it - I just hope we do not apply same logic if a 1000 allocation occurs in Europe..!

Just to clarify, it's not quite halved at renewal as your season ticket points are removed and the balance halved and they your season ticket points for the following season (assuming you've renewed) are added back.

 

[S.T.U cgull]

You never said whether you had Sheff and Spuds tickets?

Yes I am going to both, but please dont go quoting Meatloaf on me

 

[Iggle Piggle]

How many people turned up to Stoke to get points? Given we took around 1,000 to West Brom just 2 seasons ago I'd imagine the answer is quite a few. Likewise, how many will make the effort who otherwise wouldn't to capture the points for Sheffield united in the cup and league?

I accept there is an argument for a less broad tier 2 in games such as Luton but the very fact that demand is high for all away games at the minute suggests the club are doing something right. We all need the points for one reason or another.

 

[peterward]

How many people turned up to Stoke to get points? Given we took around 1,000 to West Brom just 2 seasons ago I'd imagine the answer is quite a few. Likewise, how many will make the effort who otherwise wouldn't to capture the points for Sheffield united in the cup and league?

I accept there is an argument for a less broad tier 2 in games such as Luton but the very fact that demand is high for all away games at the minute suggests the club are doing something right. We all need the points for one reason or another.

Stoke is localish for me, but having gone to last season Stoke cup game, a main motivation was the 15 points, with one eye on the away EL tie in March.

That said, it was a cracking cup game, miles better than last seasons game, and really glad I was there.

 

[dwayne]

Quick question. I've never checked but if you don't turn up as a season ticket holder or sell your ticket for a home game do you still get the points?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Stoke is localish for me, but having gone to last season Stoke cup game, a main motivation was the 15 points, with one eye on the away EL tie in March.

That said, it was a cracking cup game, miles better than last seasons game, and really glad I was there.

Same for me. I live near Coventry and would have gone anyway but I'm doing both Sheffield games when I probably would have only done 1 if I didn't have half an eye on Europe.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

How many people turned up to Stoke to get points? Given we took around 1,000 to West Brom just 2 seasons ago I'd imagine the answer is quite a few. Likewise, how many will make the effort who otherwise wouldn't to capture the points for Sheffield united in the cup and league?

I accept there is an argument for a less broad tier 2 in games such as Luton but the very fact that demand is high for all away games at the minute suggests the club are doing something right. We all need the points for one reason or another.

Agreed.

From my own personal point of view, the quality of football helps a great deal.
We have been playing better football for 4 + seasons now, and often achieve better results away than we do at home.
In fact under Potter, you were far more likely to see a win by travelling to games.

Having had chance to reflect, and having seen that Tier2 is always 5000 ish fans, the only option is to strive for Tier1 .
Clearly this approach works for the club as those just inside/outside the band will be forced to buy every ticket.

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

A simple thing that some people are ignoring in this tiers discussion is that the further down the points total you go the less the demand will be.
For instance regarding Luton if there were 50 people who just missed out on the top tier by 1 point you can be sure that 40 - 45 would have wanted a ticket whereas if there were 50 people who were just in tier 2 by 1 point probably as few as 5-10 would be wanting a ticket. Therefore the people who missed out today were actually far more likely to have lost out to someone close to them points wise than someone on 246 points.

 

[essbee1]

How many people turned up to Stoke to get points? Given we took around 1,000 to West Brom just 2 seasons ago I'd imagine the answer is quite a few. Likewise, how many will make the effort who otherwise wouldn't to capture the points for Sheffield united in the cup and league?

I accept there is an argument for a less broad tier 2 in games such as Luton but the very fact that demand is high for all away games at the minute suggests the club are doing something right. We all need the points for one reason or another.

I went to Stoke - mainly because I have a Stoke supporting friend and I've never been to their stadium. The 15 points
was a bonus really.

 

[Bozza]

When people mention the tiering, and specifically the threshold for Tier 2, being unfair the assumption seems to be to make Tier 2 smaller so higher points holders have a better chance of getting one of the scarce tickets.

You could make a case that rather than reducing the size of Tier 2, the number of fans in Tier 1 could be increased - maybe set it to the top 10% (c2,500) or make it exactly 3,000 given that is most PL away allocations.

That would mean, for most games, all Tier 1s would be guaranteed a ticket should they want one, but for lower allocations, the top group of fans all have an equal chance, although not guaranteed.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

A simple thing that some people are ignoring in this tiers discussion is that the further down the points total you go the less the demand will be.
For instance regarding Luton if there were 50 people who just missed out on the top tier by 1 point you can be sure that 40 - 45 would have wanted a ticket whereas if there were 50 people who were just in tier 2 by 1 point probably as few as 5-10 would be wanting a ticket. Therefore the people who missed out today were actually far more likely to have lost out to someone close to them points wise than someone on 246 points.

I'm not sure I agree with that Logic.

People with 246 points will have had to have travelled to a number of away games (minimum 3) in the last season and a half.
They are likely to be fans that travel to local games when they can.

Sure maybe only 50% of those will go.

Regardless of the "just missed out" scenarios, the reality is that the 50 on 380 LP are competing with 4000 others for the available tickets.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Agreed.

From my own personal point of view, the quality of football helps a great deal.
We have been playing better football for 4 + seasons now, and often achieve better results away than we do at home.
In fact under Potter, you were far more likely to see a win by travelling to games.

Having had chance to reflect, and having seen that Tier2 is always 5000 ish fans, the only option is to strive for Tier1 .
Clearly this approach works for the club as those just inside/outside the band will be forced to buy every ticket.

Agreed the football helps massively. I've been to Stoke half a dozen times. Getting beat tamely to more or less give up our Championship status sticks in the mind and is a world away from Saturdays 4-2.

It's not just Tier 2 to 1 either. I'm currently trying to go from 4 to 3. If I'd got over the line prior to this week that would probably have been the difference between getting a Spurs ticket or not. Everyone has a reason to go points wise. Back to your point though, the main reason I go is because I've had some absolutely fantastic experiences recently with my son who is old enough to appreciate it. It's a world away from the backs against the wall 0-0 at Wolves. Long may it continue.

 

[Bozza]

Quick question. I've never checked but if you don't turn up as a season ticket holder or sell your ticket for a home game do you still get the points?

STH points aren't issued game by game - they are issued at the beginning of each season based on how many consecutive seasons you've been a STH.

So, in short, it makes no difference to your loyalty points whether you go to 0, 1, 10 or all 19 league games.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

When people mention the tiering, and specifically the threshold for Tier 2, being unfair the assumption seems to be to make Tier 2 smaller so higher points holders have a better chance of getting one of the scarce tickets.

You could make a case that rather than reducing the size of Tier 2, the number of fans in Tier 1 could be increased - maybe set it to the top 10% (c2,500) or make it exactly 3,000 given that is most PL away allocations.

That would mean, for most games, all Tier 1s would be guaranteed a ticket should they want one, but for lower allocations, the top group of fans all have an equal chance, although not guaranteed.

It would work for me, but the club won't go for it (rightly so).
Hitting the numbers to be guaranteed T1 for all games, is the right incentive for the demographic, most likely to buy tickets.

 

[Titanic]

STH points aren't issued game by game - they are issued at the beginning of each season based on how many consecutive seasons you've been a STH.

So, in short, it makes no difference to your loyalty points whether you go to 0, 1, 10 or all 19 league games.

although I vaguely recall there is a threshold, if you don't attend a certain number of games a season, your ST can be withdrawn ??

 

[Is it PotG?]

That would mean, for most games, all Tier 1s would be guaranteed a ticket should they want one, but for lower allocations, the top group of fans all have an equal chance, although not guaranteed.

Hmmm, I'm not too sure about that one.

Even with that, some would still feel hard done by being a point outside of that revised threshold.

I may be wrong, but it's only Luton, 'Muff & Brentford isn't it really?

I was also concerned once, overhearing a conversation between a senior club official and his mate, a rank and file punter, saying he could get him a ticket for X game, just let him know.

There is no perfect solution however.