Luton Rabia School 'undermining British values' in treatment of girls

[Buzzer]

And what's wrong with that?

It all becomes a bit sad really. It reminds me of Americans who claim to be Irish, Italian or whatever but have zero knowledge of the culture or even the recent history. Their claim to be of that nation is based on a romantic lie and shows a hell of a lot of insecurity in their own self. And of course, ask a real Irishman, Greek or Eyetie what he or she thinks of their plastic cousins in America and its universal derision.

 

[BigGully]

And what's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing if your starting position is that there is not problem with integration within some parts of the Packistani community, so you continue euligising about Brazilians dancing in the streets of Barcelona as some kind of comparison !!

But previous debates show you have a blindspot when discussing some Islamic issues.

 

[Buzzer]

Not a great deal different from the Brazilians I saw celebrating in Barcelona when Brazil won the World Cup a few years back. A complete failure to embrace "Catalan values" if ever I saw one.

I just asked my 100% Catalan girlfriend about the large Brazilian enclaves in Catalonia. There are none. I asked if there are particularly large Brazilian communities in Barcelona and once again a big fat zero. Maybe in Lisbon but not in Barcelona. Wrong language, innit.

Actually, my girlfriend remembers those celebrations too and says that there may well have been a few Brazilian tourists, casual workers and the likes but the overwhelming majority were not Brazilian. Just as with the Barcelona football team, lots of people from around the world adopt Brazil as their second team whenever they play.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It all becomes a bit sad really. It reminds me of Americans who claim to be Irish, Italian or whatever but have zero knowledge of the culture or even the recent history. Their claim to be of that nation is based on a romantic lie and shows a hell of a lot of insecurity in their own self. And of course, ask a real Irishman, Greek or Eyetie what he or she thinks of their plastic cousins in America and its universal derision.

When he was living in New York, Brendan Behan was very upset to hear himself described as "the FBI". He then discovered that this was a term that Irish Americans used to describe the "Foreign Born Irish" such as himself.

 

[Buzzer]

When he was living in New York, Brendan Behan was very upset to hear himself described as "the FBI". He then discovered that this was a term that Irish Americans used to describe the "Foreign Born Irish" such as himself.

My favourite story of this ilk is about Richard Burton who was coming out of the Hollywood Hilton and found himself accosted by a large brash American. "Gee Mr Burton, great to meet you. Hey! We could be related as were both Selts*"

"No, I'm a Selt* and you're a Sunt*".

*Phonetic

 

[User removed 4]

It all becomes a bit sad really. It reminds me of Americans who claim to be Irish, Italian or whatever but have zero knowledge of the culture or even the recent history. Their claim to be of that nation is based on a romantic lie and shows a hell of a lot of insecurity in their own self. And of course, ask a real Irishman, Greek or Eyetie what he or she thinks of their plastic cousins in America and its universal derision.

The difference here is that the people in question are still fully immersed in their own culture , only venturing out when they have to , and they have no intention of changing this.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I just asked my 100% Catalan girlfriend about the large Brazilian enclaves in Catalonia. There are none. I asked if there are particularly large Brazilian communities in Barcelona and once again a big fat zero. Maybe in Lisbon but not in Barcelona. Wrong language, innit.

Actually, my girlfriend remembers those celebrations too and says that there may well have been a few Brazilian tourists, casual workers and the likes but the overwhelming majority were not Brazilian. Just as with the Barcelona football team, lots of people from around the world adopt Brazil as their second team whenever they play.

No doubt. Somewhere there is a photo of the Irish Australian Lady B draped in a Brazilian flag in the middle of the Ramblas.

It was a great party.

 

[KZNSeagull]

If you read the BBC article the level of education girls receive is below that of boys , considering it was founded as a girls only faith school twenty years ago there is your answer. Perhaps the parents don't want their female offspring to be too well educated as it would jeopardise the prospects of a wealthy arranged marriage ?

Perhaps. But then the girls going to that school do not have a choice as to whether to go there or somewhere else. And I would suspect that not all of the mothers of these girls are happy for them to receive this education either.

These girls are still British schoolchildren with rights to an education. They should be encouraged and empowered to speak out against this sort of injustice. At the end of the day, the government can legislate against this sort of thing and can take action against it but if you want to see real change, it has to start with normal, extremely brave, people speaking out and standing up for themselves. See the Suffragettes and the Women's Lib movement for example. That is what changed "Victorian" attitudes towards women, not legislation.

 

[Soulman]

No doubt. Somewhere there is a photo of the Irish Australian Lady B draped in a Brazilian flag in the middle of the Ramblas.

It was a great party.

I must admit quite easy to top a story up when you've had a few scoops, and time moves on. So just a handful of Brazilian tourists, or a few jumping on the bandwagon it was then.

 

[BigGully]

It all becomes a bit sad really. It reminds me of Americans who claim to be Irish, Italian or whatever but have zero knowledge of the culture or even the recent history. Their claim to be of that nation is based on a romantic lie and shows a hell of a lot of insecurity in their own self. And of course, ask a real Irishman, Greek or Eyetie what he or she thinks of their plastic cousins in America and its universal derision.

I lived in America in the late 80's and I didnt meet one that said the were American somehow they were all Irish, Italian, English, Mexican etc etc.

But the strangest experience was paying for my petrol one day and the cashier looked at me inquisitively and said 'dont tell me, you're from erm erm '

I waited for the normal 'are you Australian?' but as he handed me the change he triumphantly asked if I was French !!!

 

[Soulman]

The difference here is that the people in question are still fully immersed in their own culture , only venturing out when they have to , and they have no intention of changing this.

Charlie has some decent points.
The United Kingdom’s Prince Charles is in the middle of a week-long tour of the Middle East, where it is expected that he will deliver a strong message to Muslim leaders regarding the prevalence and growth of the radical Islamist mindset.
According to Mad World News, the Crown Prince intends to demand that Muslim leaders in the U.K, and around the world, stop radicalizing young people, and to show some respect for Western culture and values.
He is also telling them that any Muslims who come to the U.K. need to abide by the English standards that are already in place, and stop trying to force their way of life on the people who were there before them.

AND, something that seems to have passed a few by.
"The prince has lived up to the title by calling out Islam for the persecution of Christians and other minority religions in the Middle East, by unequivocally stating that Christians were in the region first, hundreds of years before the arrival of Islam".

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Perhaps. But then the girls going to that school do not have a choice as to whether to go there or somewhere else. And I would suspect that not all of the mothers of these girls are happy for them to receive this education either.

These girls are still British schoolchildren with rights to an education. They should be encouraged and empowered to speak out against this sort of injustice. At the end of the day, the government can legislate against this sort of thing and can take action against it but if you want to see real change, it has to start with normal, extremely brave, people speaking out and standing up for themselves. See the Suffragettes and the Women's Lib movement for example. That is what changed "Victorian" attitudes towards women, not legislation.

Even if the parents are 3rd or 4th generation British born they still don't identify themselves as being British and making attempts to integrate into society , more a case of deciding if they are British Pakistanis or Pakistani British.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

Fascinating thread. For me, the root of the problem lies in education itself. A mature democracy should embrace the concept of freedom of thought and the encouragement of rational, critical thinking. Any religious school exists de facto to restrict this, through indoctrination that demands belief wholly unsupported by evidence.

As a CofE primary school pupil in Hove I was thankfully able to think for myself and laugh off all its unconvincing religious baggage by the age of eight. The CofE made me an atheist. But apostasy is far harder for children subjected to religious brainwashing five times daily and threatened with the ultimate punishment of death should they attempt to abandon the faith.

Only one of the major religions operates in that way, and that is why the encouragement and growth of Islamic schools is such a thoroughly depressing and dangerous trend. The only way to reverse that is to abandon all religious schools, implement a national curriculum that develops every child's critical faculties, and confine religion to the private realm, for every individual.

If children, having been educated about the world's religions, subsequently decide to adopt one of them, that of course is their right. But if they then attempt to enforce their religion on others, to the extent of causing fear or injury - or worse - then that absolutely has to be opposed.

 

[pastafarian]

Because no-one can identify with more than one nation or culture? I know many Greek, Italian, Turkish, Indian or Lebanese Australians who are many generations down the track. They consider themselves Australians but continue traditions from and still identify with their families heritage.

What is the problem with it?

there is no problem with that in the slightest,i wonder out of all the people you have mentioned though how many try to impose their religious values on other Australians through patrols on the streets.How many have sought to sneak their hard line religious thinking into Australian schools.
I would imagine the answer is none.I wish i could say the same was true in the UK.

I look forward to the day when this sort of thinking and the mindset that empowers people to spout this garbage is firmly in the dustbin,i wont be holding my breath though

 

[Soulman]

Because no-one can identify with more than one nation or culture? I know many Greek, Italian, Turkish, Indian or Lebanese Australians who are many generations down the track. They consider themselves Australians but continue traditions from and still identify with their families heritage.

What is the problem with it? Especially when, as with the Pakistani example you say that they consider themselves British AND Pakistani.

And this from 6 years ago in England, even when the police are being pelted with bollards they backed away. Can you see this being the case if it was a nationalist group demonstrating. Watch it all, if you can be bothered.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

NSC's xenophobic right are out in full force. Best of luck [MENTION=251]Dandyman[/MENTION]

another
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

And what's wrong with that?

DOUBLE STANDARDS you're BRITISH or you're not BRITISH, MAKE YOUR MIND UP TIME ? how much longer do they need
regards
DR

 

[User removed 4]

DOUBLE STANDARDS you're BRITISH or you're not BRITISH, MAKE YOUR MIND UP TIME ? how much longer do they need
regards
DR

yep, British when it suits.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

yep, British when it suits.

must be a nice option to have.
regards
DR

 

[Soulman]

Denmark now, not surprising, they have been having trouble for a while now.
Copenhagen shooting during debate on Islam:
One dead in shooting at a Copenhagen cultural centre, where a meeting about freedom of speech was being held - organised by a Swedish artist who had caricatured the Prophet Muhammad.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gen-shooting-during-debate-on-Islam-live.html