[Football] Luton penalty vs Wolves

[Neville's Breakfast]

Just watching MOTD and seen the most blatant handball ever given as a penalty by the referee. No controversy there. Now I’ve just heard Lineker, Murphy and Keown (what a trio btw…) call it the worst penalty decision of the season. A part of their logic was that it wasn’t deliberate. Am I right in thinking that is irrelevant ? Aren’t they paid to know these things ? The fella’s arm was up in the air for goodness sake ! Easiest pen ever for a ref to give. Isn’t it ?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

No. If the ball deflects off another part of the defender’s body, no penalty should be given.
That is what happened.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

No. If the ball deflects off another part of the defender’s body, no penalty should be given.
That is what happened.

Can you link the rule ?

 

[Bozza]

Others in the PL thread didn't think it was a penalty:

[Albion] - Premier League 23-24/9/23

The guy refereeing this Luton Wolves game is so far out of his depth he might as well be in the Mariana trench, woeful officiating.

www.northstandchat.com

I've not actually seen it yet.

 

[Frankie]

Seemed like both the ref and stockley park failed to read the rules concerning penalties,if they don't know them what chance do the players have of understanding them.

 

[m20gull]

Can you link the rule ?

I asked this question on the Premier League thread. The best I can establish is that this was in the IFAB laws up to about 2019 when it got taken out and this year UEFA have asked FIFA to put it back in. So my impression is that this rule does not currently apply to the FA/EPL.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Can you link the rule ?

I can’t, no, but this has been pretty universally acknowledged as to how the rules will be applied. Repeatedly.

 

[Mr Bridger]

Wasn’t a penalty, ball deflected of his leg, bounced up and hit his hand From a short distance.
No intent, wasn’t even looking at it.

 

[Washie]

I can’t, no, but this has been pretty universally acknowledged as to how the rules will be applied. Repeatedly.

Not in the laws of the game. In fact it was teaken out in i want to say 2020

 

[Colonel Mustard]

It’s a terrible decision in the sense that the law itself is terrible. As with the offside law, we have to remind ourselves why the law was created in the first place. Unless you’re a goalie, football is designed to be played with the feet. So sticking out a hand to stop a certain goal, or to stop an opponent reaching the ball, was deemed so serious that a penalty should be awarded. We’ve come a million miles away from that initial reasoning now. Handball has become a technical offence — regardless of intent, regardless of where in the area it occurs, regardless of whether the player has the physical ability to avoid the ball hitting the hand — considered so serious that a penalty and near-certain goal should be awarded. It’s preposterous, and is one of the things that ruins a game.

Same with offside, originally designed to stop goal-hanging. Now you can be caught offside when actually running back, away from the goal, and because a trailing foot is marginally in front of an opposing player. Again, totally outside the spirit of the game, and outside the spirit of the laws.

 

[Bodian]

Personally, I felt the decision was right (in terms of how the law is currently written) His arm was well up in the air in an unnatural position - and the ball went a fair way from his foot to over his head - it wasn't like bouncing off his knee and on to his arm a few inches away. I can see why it was given.

 

[theboybilly]

Personally, I felt the decision was right (in terms of how the law is currently written) His arm was well up in the air in an unnatural position - and the ball went a fair way from his foot to over his head - it wasn't like bouncing off his knee and on to his arm a few inches away. I can see why it was given.

Sorry but I think from the side you can see that was a very natural position for a defender trying his best to get a block in, unlike putting your hands behind your back - that just isn't natural. But for me the crucial thing is the ball was deflected at some pace. I don't really know what the defender could do to be honest. It wasn't a penalty for me

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I can’t, no, but this has been pretty universally acknowledged as to how the rules will be applied. Repeatedly.

No wonder I don’t understand the rule.

I asked this question on the Premier League thread. The best I can establish is that this was in the IFAB laws up to about 2019 when it got taken out and this year UEFA have asked FIFA to put it back in. So my impression is that this rule does not currently apply to the FA/EPL.

Referees, fans and players on a hiding to nothing then I guess. None of us understand the game because the rules haven’t been confirmed. I wouldn’t have thought it that difficult for FIFA/the FA to state whether a deflection off another part of the body overrides all other considerations or not. Like you I could find nothing online. In the absence of this there is no such thing as a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ handball decision. A hierarchy of factors influencing the decision needs to be published.

 

[Van Cleef]

No wonder I don’t understand the rule.

Referees, fans and players on a hiding to nothing then I guess. None of us understand the game because the rules haven’t been confirmed. I wouldn’t have thought it that difficult for FIFA/the FA to state whether a deflection off another part of the body overrides all other considerations or not. Like you I could find nothing online. In the absence of this there is no such thing as a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ handball decision. A hierarchy of factors influencing the decision needs to be published.

I don't know what the actual law states, but having watched the incident I would have been furious if that had been given against us. If the law says that's a penalty then it should be changed. Ridiculous.

 

[fruitnveg]

Never a pen. Nor should Luton's against us have been.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I don't know what the actual law states, but having watched the incident I would have been furious if that had been given against us. If the law says that's a penalty then it should be changed. Ridiculous.

Tricky though because people want the law to be different things. I have the opposite view to you. I want that to be a penalty because his hand was away from his side and stopped a goal scoring chance. My query was that I was under the impression that the new rules define that actually as a penalty and yet the MOTD pundits all said it was unambiguously not one. Despite their confidence nobody can actually back that up. All a bit of a mess.

 

[amexer]

Never 1) Closeness of defender and 2) came of his leg

 

[Van Cleef]

I agree it is a mess. I personally would like it to go back to deliberate handball, what used to called hand to ball. None of this natural/unnatural position malarkey.

 

[Badger Boy]

It was the only way Luton were going to score and maybe get a point. They are easily the worst team ever to play in the Premier League and getting double figures in points has to be their aim.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Tricky though because people want the law to be different things. I have the opposite view to you. I want that to be a penalty because his hand was away from his side and stopped a goal scoring chance. My query was that I was under the impression that the new rules define that actually as a penalty and yet the MOTD pundits all said it was unambiguously not one. Despite their confidence nobody can actually back that up. All a bit of a mess.

I am amazed that anyone would want that to be a penalty. Totally inadvertent, arms in a natural position for the move he was making - why on earth would his arms be by his side? Against all logic and against the spirit of the game for me.