[News] Luton Airport fire

[Greg Bobkin]

This bloke talking a hell alot of sense.

Ev’s are not going anywhere, so the challenge to find a suitable, safe method of fighting the very real situation of catastrophic battery failure is on.

Also, if anyone reading is in the insurance game…. would the people who's vehicles have been damaged make a claim against the policy of the vehicle that caught fire?? its that how it works with events like this?

What about diesels? Like the one at the heart of this disaster?

 

[A mex eyecan]

And the tyres are bigger to spread the load therefore more expensive, bloke at work just had new tyres after 12k, my ev has done 8k so I better keep an eye on them, ( company car so won’t cost)

if it’s leased then the costs are built into the monthly lease cost. It may not be you directly but it will be costing your company.

 

[swindonseagull]

if it’s leased then the costs are built into the monthly lease cost. It may not be you directly but it will be costing your company.

And I care about that because ?

The company make the rules no diesel or ICE cars electric or hybrid only.

 

[A mex eyecan]

And I care about that because ?

The company make the rules no diesel or ICE cars electric or hybrid only.

good attitude … not costing me so bollocks ….

 

[swindonseagull]

good attitude … not costing me so bollocks ….

What do you want me to say ? Company says ( ecu )essential car users must have a car and not money towards excess miles ….

Should I give up my job because the tyres are expensive??

Don’t forget fleet insurance is also expensive ..

BIK tax on pure electric is nothing compared to ICE cars so even if given the choice I would go EV as the company is paying.
They set the rules on what we can and can’t have.

#pillock.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

What about diesels? Like the one at the heart of this disaster?

How long have diesel's been going and how many incidents like this have we seen?
the potential energy in a rechargeable battery sell is immense, and I mean immense, lithium in particular. It’s basically a fire bomb in the making. I worked on charging systems when lithium ion cells first came out and had few ‘blow up’ on me and it wasn’t pleasant. The OP has a very valid point and it's something that is ignored at out peril.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

How long have diesel's been going and how many incidents like this have we seen?
the potential energy in a rechargeable battery sell is immense, and I mean immense, lithium in particular. It’s basically a fire bomb in the making. I worked on charging systems when lithium ion cells first came out and had few ‘blow up’ on me and it wasn’t pleasant. The OP has a very valid point and it's something that is ignored at out peril.

I don't know, but the cause of *this* fire was a diesel. Not even a diesel-hybrid, a good, old-fashioned oil burner. So why the chat continues to centre around BEVs is a bit baffling.

No-one is saying EVs are the answer to everything - or are perfect - but trying to pin the blame on them for this disaster is a hell of a stretch.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I don't know, but the cause of *this* fire was a diesel. Not even a diesel-hybrid, a good, old-fashioned oil burner. So why the chat continues to centre around BEVs is a bit baffling.

No-one is saying EVs are the answer to everything - or are perfect - but trying to pin the blame on them for this disaster is a hell of a stretch.

because the fire risk associated with EV’s is a very large elephant in the room and needs to be addressed and not ignored. BTW, not and never have been a fan of diesels.

 

[GOM]

How long have diesel's been going and how many incidents like this have we seen?
the potential energy in a rechargeable battery sell is immense, and I mean immense, lithium in particular. It’s basically a fire bomb in the making. I worked on charging systems when lithium ion cells first came out and had few ‘blow up’ on me and it wasn’t pleasant. The OP has a very valid point and it's something that is ignored at out peril.

Liverpool multi storey blaze December 2017 1400 cars destroyed. Started with a diesel vehicle.
Stavanger airport fire January 2020 started by diesel vehicle 300 cars destroyed.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Liverpool multi storey blaze December 2017 1400 cars destroyed. Started with a diesel vehicle.
Stavanger airport fire January 2020 started by diesel vehicle 300 cars destroyed.

How many diesel cars are there? How many EV’s. I don’t have an issue with EV’s as they are a way better alternative than diesels. My issues are one of safety regards battery fires, secondly I’m still not conviced that we have a handle on the true environmental cost of recycling cells and the manufacture of new cells.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Cor blimey, guv'nor!

Plenty of emissions from that electric vehicle!

 

[GOM]

How many diesel cars are there? How many EV’s. I don’t have an issue with EV’s as they are a way better alternative than diesels. My issues are one of safety regards battery fires, secondly I’m still not conviced that we have a handle on the true environmental cost of recycling cells and the manufacture of new cells.

At least virtually every part of a battery can be recycled and reused in new batteries. Battery materials like lithium, nickel and cobalt (increasingly not used in EV batteries any more) are infinitely recyclable. The critical materials in lithium-ion EV batteries can be recycled over and over without performance loss.
Needless to say the cobalt used in oil refining is not recyclable/reusable.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

At least virtually every part of a battery can be recycled and reused in new batteries. Battery materials like lithium, nickel and cobalt (increasingly not used in EV batteries any more) are infinitely recyclable. The critical materials in lithium-ion EV batteries can be recycled over and over without performance loss.
Needless to say the cobalt used in oil refining is not recyclable/reusable.

Agreed. Almost everything can be recycled, however there is an environmental cost when you recycle and that’s what needs more understanding.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Agreed. Almost everything can be recycled, however there is an environmental cost when you recycle and that’s what needs more understanding.

What's the cost of recycling a gallon of diesel?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

What's the cost of recycling a gallon of diesel?

I think you are missing the point. To recycle anything there is a level of effort required in terms of energy and materials, which is where my concern lies. We are at the very beginning of the EV lifecycle and so any issues with this has yet to be identified. it’s the how that concerns me. The irony is that I’m not a petrol head, I don’t like diesel cars and drive the smallest petrol engines car in the range.

 

[Horses Arse]

Cor blimey, guv'nor!

Good for the environment though

 

[GOM]

Agreed. Almost everything can be recycled, however there is an environmental cost when you recycle and that’s what needs more understanding.

So we shouldn't recycle because of the environmental cost ??
If they can recycle 95%* of lithium batteries (not just EV batteries) and then reuse that in building new batteries, which will save on the environmental cost of mining new materials then surely that has to be better for the environment overall.
* https://electrek.co/2023/03/02/tesl...ows-95-efficiency-in-battery-recycling-pilot/

 

[chickens]

I love NSC, I can absolutely believe that a thread about a diesel vehicle causing a blaze in a multi-storey car park has turned into a binfest about EVs.

EVs are fab, I drive one myself. ICE cars are fab too, but we could do without the crap coming out the tailpipe.

Cars en masse are a problem everywhere, but until we subsidise public transport to the point that it’s all but free at point of use, the car will remain king.

Anyway, I feel a great deal of sympathy for all of those caught up in this mess, and I’m just glad that nobody was seriously hurt.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

So we shouldn't recycle because of the environmental cost ??
If they can recycle 95%* of lithium batteries (not just EV batteries) and then reuse that in building new batteries, which will save on the environmental cost of mining new materials then surely that has to be better for the environment overall.
* https://electrek.co/2023/03/02/tesla-cofounders-redwood-shows-95-efficiency-in-battery-recycli-pilot/

You are missing the point. I know they can be recycled it’s the effort required and the environmental costs associated with the by-products of this process. Batteries are chemically very nasty.
The internal combustion engine has had its day, but ignoring the above is asking for trouble. You get rid of one problem and generate another.

 

[GOM]

You are missing the point. I know they can be recycled it’s the effort required and the environmental costs associated with the by-products of this process. Batteries are chemically very nasty.
The internal combustion engine has had its day, but ignoring the above is asking for trouble. You get rid of one problem and generate another.

I understand your sentiment but I'm not sure what specifically you are meaning. What are the environmental costs/effects/impact associated with recycling batteries that you are referring to? What are these by-products of the process?